Author Topic: heads up, cards both folded  (Read 7892 times)

W0lfster

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heads up, cards both folded
« on: January 10, 2011, 05:34:07 PM »
Just wondering, if heads up action a player folds his hand on top of another player's hand they are both folded if the other player did not have a card guard or chip on top.
My question is what happens to the pot? Do you split the pot? Is there a winner or what?
Thanks.

chet

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Re: heads up, cards both folded
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 08:15:47 PM »
Assuming this is a tournament and not a cash game, my initial reaction, based on the limited information you provided, would be to declare both hands dead and return the chips wagered to the appropriate parties.  I would also be inclined to give the player that initiated the fold (the player who folded his cards on top of his opponent) a penalty and a warning to the other player for not protecting his hand.  This is predicated on the whole hand being played 'heads-up' from the deal. 

This said, there may be any number of facts that could change the above.  If, for example, there had been some prior 'history' between these two, or if one was significantly more experienced than the other I very well may rule differently and award the whole pot to one or the other.  It all depends upon the facts applicable to the situation. 

What you presented was very general and it is very likely there are other facts that would need to be included.

Nick C

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Re: heads up, cards both folded
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 09:37:07 PM »
WOlfster,
 I have to agree with Chet, we could use a little more information. IMO, if Player A surrendered his hand on his turn to act, and it fell onto the cards of Player B  (the only other player in the hand), I would consider giving the pot to Player B even though he should have protected his hand better. I would hate to think that any player that "misses his draw" could get his money back by fouling an opponents hand. Both players are at fault, but Player A has no right to any returned chips.

That's the way I see it.

W0lfster

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Re: heads up, cards both folded
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2011, 07:02:54 AM »
But would the chips be split between the 2 players?

Nick C

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Re: heads up, cards both folded
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 08:32:07 AM »
No

W0lfster

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Re: heads up, cards both folded
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 10:28:28 AM »
So basically Nick are you saying the chips that the previous bettors bet are given their chips back to them before at the start of the hand? Could you do it that way or defo give player B all of the chips regardless if previous players have folded.

Nick C

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Re: heads up, cards both folded
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 10:59:36 AM »
With the limited information that you have given us. I would not give any chips to a player that surrendered their hand and it happened to slide into the other players hand. This is based on the information that the action was head to head. If both players tossed their hands together at the same time, I might consider leaving the pot intact and dealing another hand. Like Chet says, we really need you to break down the situation more clearly.

Guillaume Gleize

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Re: heads up, cards both folded
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2011, 07:04:22 PM »
Hello,

If there were a third player: I would kill thoses two hands and give the chips to the third player (if his stack can cover the amount) as the last possessor of a valid hand.
But because they are only two: I would give the pot to the covered hand allways as the last possessor of a valid hand (during the flight of the cards)! Funny but real: come on: let's make a decision and defend it with courage!

Even if we are sometime obliged to do it, we must do everything to avoid splitting the pot as a solution: this IS NOT a solution! Anybody could do it: "a problem? Let split the pot!" ... But we are courageous TDs, we know most of the time there is a player who made the INITIAL FAULT ... and we must have the courage to punish him!

IMAO ...

WSOPMcGee

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Re: heads up, cards both folded
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2011, 10:08:18 PM »
Hello,

If there were a third player: I would kill thoses two hands and give the chips to the third player (if his stack can cover the amount) as the last possessor of a valid hand.
But because they are only two: I would give the pot to the covered hand allways as the last possessor of a valid hand (during the flight of the cards)! Funny but real: come on: let's make a decision and defend it with courage!

Even if we are sometime obliged to do it, we must do everything to avoid splitting the pot as a solution: this IS NOT a solution! Anybody could do it: "a problem? Let split the pot!" ... But we are courageous TDs, we know most of the time there is a player who made the INITIAL FAULT ... and we must have the courage to punish him!

IMAO ...
Punish him! LOL! We could work together... hahaha.

Simple as is under the given information, limited as it is, the player who last had a live complete hand is going to win the pot.

If Player A and Player B are the only two players in the pot and Player A folds his hand into Player B's hand, then Player B is the last person in the pot with a live hand and will be awarded the pot.

I've seen this many times, where Player A and Player B are sitting next to each other and Player A folds their hand into Player B's hand and says "give him the pot".
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