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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: Very late registered players?

« Last post by Guillaume Gleize on Today at 09:43:19 AM »

TY very much for your help gentlemen!
For us we use to do the #2 but we wanted to check around.
Take care and let's shut up & deal! 

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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: Very late registered players?

« Last post by Dave Miller on Today at 08:41:26 AM »

I have my own opinions, but mind you, I deal and run a bar league.

But as a player, here's what I assume are the rules for casino poker tournaments:

Once a player pays, his stack is in play and should be blinded out and continues to be blinded out until he is out of chips. No refunds, and if still absent, will automatically lose their last hand.

You never know why the player is missing and cannot make decisions based on assumptions. Suppose you assume he's a no-show, but shows up 2 minutes after removing his chips? What then? What if he shows up 15 minutes after?

The only time refunds are acceptable is if a player requests one before the tourney starts, or an alternate player requests it before they get a seat. And even then, rules may dictate no refunds.

While it's unlikely, if the action is wild and enough players get eliminated so that the money bubble bursts before a no-show player busts out, the no-show player is entitled to their fair payout at whatever position they are finally eliminated.



For the record, in our bar league, we play short-stack turbo games that last a little over an hour, and we get in three per night. Call-ins are not allowed due to too many times a call-in becomes a no-show. While there is no charge to play, we never put out stacks for players until they arrive at the venue. We guarantee seating through two levels. Players get points based on their bust out position on the final table.

In cases where attendance is low so that there is only one table, and a player arrives before the third level, but after someone else has already busted out, rather than changing the sign-out positions of those that already busted out, the late player can play as a bounty.

Such a bounty is worth the same number of points as fourth place - but there's a twist. To give the bounty player incentive to play well, if he survives to go heads up, he will get the bounty points, and still be a bounty.

I.E. Once heads up, the bounty player gets bounty points while the other player gets first place points, and they continue to play with additional bounty points on the line to go to the winner.

It gets confusing when there are multiple bounty players, but you get the idea.

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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: Very late registered players?

« Last post by Max D on Today at 08:15:19 AM »

Guillaume

- Blind off their stack until the end of re-buys (this is our line in the sand for people to show-up), and then remove the remainder of the stack off the table.
- I have registered players, but not pre-paid so I dont have an answer to paying back players or not.

Max

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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: Very late registered players?

« Last post by Guillaume Gleize on May 31, 2024, 04:43:37 PM »

No answer? Nobody?

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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / Re: All in "announced" misunderstanding

« Last post by BROOKS on May 24, 2024, 08:03:50 PM »

I think that ruling it as a bet of 10 is just fine.
It's the players responsibility to make their actions clear.
Saying one thing, and doing another, is not clear.

40: Methods of Betting: Verbal and Chips
A: Bets are by verbal declaration and/or pushing out chips. If a player does both, whichever is first defines the bet. If simultaneous, a clear and reasonable verbal declaration takes precedence, otherwise the chips play. In unclear situations or where verbal and chips are contradictory, the TD will determine the bet based on the circumstances and Rule 1

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Live Cash Game Rules Questions / All in "announced" misunderstanding

« Last post by Sammyy90 on May 24, 2024, 02:02:32 PM »

Hey folks, had one of those situations that shows up every 4 years ish and puts the experience to the test.

I'll try to give as much information as I can so bare with me.
HU, game is 2.5/2.5 euro
Player 1 stack size 2500 euro
Player 2 stack size 700 euro
Pot size 220 euro

Board QcJc9d7sTs

Player 1 "announces" all in and throws in a 10 euro chip, player 2 insta calls what the he believes is a 10 euro bet with QJ, player 1 has AK. Dealer hesitated but chose to say he believed it was said all in but had no time to announce the action.
Player 1 was seated on seat 6 and player 2 on seat 8, seat 2 announced he heard player 2 say all in but no other player backed that up.

The decision was that player 2 called 10 euro and did not have to put in the remaining 690, it wasnt an easy decision and its very rare that I feel I need to discuss with my colleagues what I feel the decision should be before I deliver it. However this is in my opinion a "sensitive one", so its better to shuffle more heads. None of my colleagues were quite comfortable in either decision that could be delivered.
Why?
So there are a lot of variables I started to think about here.
Pot size was one of them, an extreme over bet but I assumed it was a great move when player 1 hit the gutshot.
The QJ call is what made me believe this is a misunderstanding first, the 10 euro chip is also nothing but an instigator for confusion.
Even though a verbal action has been made the action has to be clear, and even the dealer hesitated. How seat 2 heard the all in is beyond me, could be that the other players just did not want to pick a side in such a situation.
I know both of the players to be experienced.
So obviously any 8 or K makes a straight so to think player 2 would call anything else than a 10-30 euro bet I feel is out of the question. This felt more like a call just to see the cards and accept his fate. Im no hollywood expert either but the reaction seemed to be genuine when player 2 heard what was actually happening.
Now I'm a player myself whenever I travel and I've been playing for about 10 years, when I announce any action I always make it clear to the dealer, or I place chips that are enough to cover the all in of my opponent without a verbal action. The 10 euro chip for me has no function whatsoever. To whisper all in feels extremely sketchy to me.
Obviously player 1 was extremely upset about this.
The 2 major mistakes that were made this hand is 1 from each player.
Player 1: Unclear in his action
Player 2: Insta reacting without being sure what is actually happening
If the dealer would have the time to announce the all in and the call was made is pretty straight forward, however that is not the case. A few players approached me discussing about verbal actions during that evening.

Short version:
Player 1 announced all in with a 10 euro chip and a very low tone that can be misunderstood
Player 2 insta called what he thought was a 10 euro bet but got told it was an all in

What are your thoughts on this? Once again the dealer did hesitate but was quite sure it was announced all in after rethinking.

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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Very late registered players?

« Last post by Guillaume Gleize on May 22, 2024, 08:41:29 AM »

Hello,

I know the rooms & casinos have different rules about that but what are your opinion about the registered (or qualified) players that are very late or never arrive?

1) You don't touch their full stacks during x rounds then you retire them (do you pay back those who paid?)
2) You blind off their stacks during x rounds then you retire them (do you pay back those who paid?)
2) You blind off their stacks until they are eliminated (so you identify each stack with a name?) 

TY in advance - GG

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2024 POKER TDA SUMMIT XI / Re: what are the hot topics for this year?

« Last post by Dave Miller on May 17, 2024, 07:48:52 AM »

Thanks for the explanation. That makes sense. You didn’t mention the obvious: that the SM also gets to take his SB back. The entire pot is the single chip ante.


Here's my ruling: It sucks, but if chopped, the odd chip goes to the small blind - left of the button. While it's true that if we weren't doing ante first, this wouldn't even be a question, this unique situation is no reason to consider not doing ante first.

Frankly, we shouldn't even consider making a rule for this very rare situation. A player that allowed himself to get into such a low stack situation must suffer the consequences. Sucks to be you buddy, but rules are rules.

Before anyone tries to invoke the rule that you can't be eliminated during a color-up race, that's a different situation, with no rules regarding player position.

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Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General / Re: Is it a premature river?

« Last post by BROOKS on May 16, 2024, 06:16:19 PM »

Substantial Action isn't the "end all, be all" to making rulings.

Take a missing burn card for example:

If dealer forgets to burn before the flop, and there has been ANY action, the flop stays.
If a player checks, on a flop of A49, we can't say, well there wasn't substantial action - let's flip em over, scramble and select a random card to be the burn. Now what if the flop becomes 249 and the player that already checked now bets?

So since the rule in this case would be that the flop stays, even with 1 check, I believe in your situation, the river card should've stayed.

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2024 POKER TDA SUMMIT XI / Re: what are the hot topics for this year?

« Last post by BROOKS on May 16, 2024, 06:07:18 PM »

If the BB is all in for just the ante amount, or even less than the ante amount, and it's the smallest chip in play.
Folds to SB, who has to put in 0 chips.
The entire pot is just this 1 chip for the ante.
Both players have the same hand, chop.
Who gets the pot?