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Poker TDA Mobile App / 2019 TDA Rules iOS App - Version 2.3.1 - Multi-Language
« Last post by BillM16 on October 11, 2020, 08:18:32 AM »
An update to the 2019 TDA Rules iOS app has been released.

This is a minor release that fixes a bug which rarely occurs while browsing thru the various sections and rules for 2019. 

Thankfully, one of the current users allow the app to upload a crash log to Apple.  These logs are essential to troubleshooting these rare bug occurrences.  I encourage everyone to upload a crash log when problems occur running on Apple platforms. This can be accomplished simply by replying "Yes" when a crash occurs and Apple ask if you'd like to upload the crash log. 
Sorry, but the only situation where a player might be BB twice in a row is when tables merge requiring a random seat/blind selection. Other than that rare chance...

Although wordy, here's a simple way to think about how to move the blinds, regardless of how many people are left or get eliminated and regardless of if there was a SB in the hand.

Of the remaining players, who ever is to the left of the current BB, even if they are new to the table, becomes the new BB.

If the BB wasn't eliminated, he becomes the SB. If he was eliminated, there is no SB.

The player to the right of the SB (or to the right of the BB if there is no SB) who had been dealt into the hand, becomes (or remains) the button. This may mean players new to the table must sit out a hand. In rare cases, they sit out multiple hands. It also means that in rare cases, the button moves backwards.

This also applies to going to heads up. Regardless of how many players got eliminated, and regardless of whether there was a SB, the remaining player to the left of the BB becomes the next BB. The other player becomes the SB - even if he just was the SB. The new SB also becomes the button, even if he just was the button.
Hello again, W0lfster...I waited, thinking that someone might jump in and help us out. I believe if you focus more on the movement of the BB you might be better able to understand the correct movement of the button and the blinds. I'm a little rusty from lack of casino play but, the way I understand it is as follows: A player should never have the BB on consecutive hands. The exception to that rule is when one or more players are eliminated on the last hand and only two players remain at the table. In this scenario, it is possible that the button could move beyond the norm. Okay, so now we're down to head-to-head.
Hello Nick,

Thank you for your reply. I tried replying earlier but it wouldnít let me for some reason so apologies.

With number 2, are you saying the UTG +1 would post the BB as the UTG +1 the very hand after the eliminations? Or the hand after that when he/she is naturally then the BB? If the former is true then does he/she become the BB again for the next hand?

For number 4 is the example I put normal in some tournaments also? Seems a bit excessive to have it carry on until one table but then who am I to judge?

Thanks again Nick, you stay well also.
Hello,'s been a while but let me give this a shot. On your first question the under the gun must fold, raise, or call the full bb amount of 10...unless of course the action were head to head.

Number 2...there would still be a dead button and dead SB. the UTG+1 would be the BB next hand.

Number 3...If I understand you correctly, I would handle it the same as #2. The next player clockwise to the last BB would post the BB. In your first three questions the number of players could become factors.

Number 4...I have actually seen,(on numerous occasions} where hand for hand continues until the action is down to one table.

I hope this helps. Maybe you can generate a little activity on the forum...Stay well

I am just wondering big the answers to these questions if you could please help me.

1. NL Holdíem. Blinds 5/10. Preflop the big blind only has $9 and goes all in, $1 short of the actual BB. What are the options for the UTG? Can he call the $9 or is he/she forced to make a full call to $10 instead as well as the other players? Iíve also heard some cardrooms wonít allow you to be dealt in when you are either the SB or BB if you canít cover them. What is correct here?

2. Dead button rule. I understand if both the small and big blind are busted, the BB is posted only for the next round and the SB is dead. What happens however if the SB BB and UTG bust on the same hand? Are blinds posted on the next hand? If so who?

3. Also if the SB and BB go bust and the next hand the only posted BB then goes bust, what happens with the hand after?

4. Is hand for hand only used on the bubble? As soon as the bubble is burst is there no more hand for hand?

I have witnessed tournaments playing hand-for-hand where there was but only one player yet to bust.  On the next all-in hand AA got cracked by AKo.  So, there was a small percentage (~7%) of the Aces going home broke.  Some players would say "I'd take that chance every day of the week."  Others would say, "I'm here to win $$, not to win every hand." But, maybe the AA figured he accomplished part of his goal - he eliminated one player before the money. ;-)
I'm not a TD, I just play one in a pub league.

I agree that, even if the BB didn't ask if the all-in player wants a call, folding to such a small raise is soft play. It's also extremely bad strategy, particularly with the ICM chop coming so soon. The chance to eliminate one player right before the chop? I'd take that chance every day of the week.

While a penalty, or even a warning, at that late stage would be pointless, merely explaining the situation while payouts are being made would probably be sufficient. However, I suspect that the player either figured it out or had it pointed out to him by some of the other players.

On the other hand, just how friendly was this group? Folding there is much akin to players agreeing to pay the bubble.
Welcome to the forum Ralf!  I must say, it is rare that we receive such a well-written post from a new member.

There are several pertinent TDA Rules of 2019 regarding your situation. These can be easily found by searching for phrase "one player" in the free TDA Rules iOS App.  In particular:

2: Player Responsibilities
67: No Disclosure. One Player to a Hand

So, the player has violated the One Player to a Hand rule.  Your question is whether you can oblige the player to make a call or to disqualify the player.  According to TDA Rules of 2019:

71: Warnings, Penalties, & Disqualification

A: Enforcement options include verbal warnings, one or more “missed hand” or “missed round” penalties, and disqualification. For missed rounds, the offender will miss one hand for every player (including him or her) at the table when the penalty is given multiplied by the number of penalty rounds. Repeat infractions are subject to escalating penalties. Players away from the table or on penalty may be anted or blinded out of a tournament.

B: A penalty may be invoked for etiquette violations (Rule 70), card exposure with action pending, throwing cards, violating one-player-to-a-hand, or similar incidents. Penalties will be given for soft play, abuse, disruptive behavior, or cheating. Checking the exclusive nuts when last to act on the river is not an automatic soft play violation; TD’s discretion applies based on the situation.

So IMO, if you decide that the player has violated the rule(s) and has had sufficient warning or has done so repeatedly then your options are quite broad, up to and including forfeiture of chips and disqualification.  Again IMO, forcing the player to make a call is not an option.  In your situation, you might decide that the player violated one player to a hand by asking the other player what he wanted.  The other question is whether or not the action of folding is then considered soft play.  However, another possibility is that the player was simply trying to get a read on his opponent.  Maybe the player had a borderline calling hand and would make the call only if he read the opponent as weak and would fold if the read was strong.  Given the information in your excellent post, I believe I'd issue the warning assuming this was the first such offense.
We are talking in unusual circumstances because of the Covid measurements we are obliged to close the poker room at 1:00. So to force this when the tournament is still running an icm deal will be forced at 0:45. Players still in the tournament will all receive their fair share because of this. We try to make the structure to avoid this as much as possible but when players play tight at the end...

So yesterday we had the following situation: last 2 hands have been announced before the deal is made. (6 players remaining with an average of less than 3bb and normal payout 4 players itm)
Blinds 15.000-30.000 player A shoved all-in for 33.000, action folds to the bb player who plays more than 100.000 behind. Bb asks player A if he wants a call or a fold to which he obviously says a fold and bb player folds. In normal circumstances we would warn this player that this is soft play and will give him a penalty when he repeats this action. But since the next hand is the last hand of the night this has almost no effect and even giving a penalty has almost no effect.

So the question rises can we oblige this player to make this call or (also based on the table talk where he asks the other player what he wants) is disqualification an option?

Extra info it happened in a low stakes (Ä20 buy-in) tournament in a room where most players are recreational and donít even know these kind of rules about soft playing. This mainly being the reason why we let it happen this time, but we kept wondering what the options would be if we decided to take action.

Thanks in advance for your responses
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