Author Topic: All in "announced" misunderstanding  (Read 1773 times)

Sammyy90

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All in "announced" misunderstanding
« on: May 24, 2024, 02:02:32 PM »
Hey folks, had one of those situations that shows up every 4 years ish and puts the experience to the test.

I'll try to give as much information as I can so bare with me.
HU, game is 2.5/2.5 euro
Player 1 stack size 2500 euro
Player 2 stack size 700 euro
Pot size 220 euro

Board QcJc9d7sTs

Player 1 "announces" all in and throws in a 10 euro chip, player 2 insta calls what the he believes is a 10 euro bet with QJ, player 1 has AK. Dealer hesitated but chose to say he believed it was said all in but had no time to announce the action.
Player 1 was seated on seat 6 and player 2 on seat 8, seat 2 announced he heard player 2 say all in but no other player backed that up.

The decision was that player 2 called 10 euro and did not have to put in the remaining 690, it wasnt an easy decision and its very rare that I feel I need to discuss with my colleagues what I feel the decision should be before I deliver it. However this is in my opinion a "sensitive one", so its better to shuffle more heads. None of my colleagues were quite comfortable in either decision that could be delivered.
Why?
So there are a lot of variables I started to think about here.
Pot size was one of them, an extreme over bet but I assumed it was a great move when player 1 hit the gutshot.
The QJ call is what made me believe this is a misunderstanding first, the 10 euro chip is also nothing but an instigator for confusion.
Even though a verbal action has been made the action has to be clear, and even the dealer hesitated. How seat 2 heard the all in is beyond me, could be that the other players just did not want to pick a side in such a situation.
I know both of the players to be experienced.
So obviously any 8 or K makes a straight so to think player 2 would call anything else than a 10-30 euro bet I feel is out of the question. This felt more like a call just to see the cards and accept his fate. Im no hollywood expert either but the reaction seemed to be genuine when player 2 heard what was actually happening.
Now I'm a player myself whenever I travel and I've been playing for about 10 years, when I announce any action I always make it clear to the dealer, or I place chips that are enough to cover the all in of my opponent without a verbal action. The 10 euro chip for me has no function whatsoever. To whisper all in feels extremely sketchy to me.
Obviously player 1 was extremely upset about this.
The 2 major mistakes that were made this hand is 1 from each player.
Player 1: Unclear in his action
Player 2: Insta reacting without being sure what is actually happening
If the dealer would have the time to announce the all in and the call was made is pretty straight forward, however that is not the case. A few players approached me discussing about verbal actions during that evening.

Short version:
Player 1 announced all in with a 10 euro chip and a very low tone that can be misunderstood
Player 2 insta called what he thought was a 10 euro bet but got told it was an all in

What are your thoughts on this? Once again the dealer did hesitate but was quite sure it was announced all in after rethinking.

BROOKS

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Re: All in "announced" misunderstanding
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2024, 08:03:50 PM »
I think that ruling it as a bet of 10 is just fine.
It's the players responsibility to make their actions clear.
Saying one thing, and doing another, is not clear.

40: Methods of Betting: Verbal and Chips
A: Bets are by verbal declaration and/or pushing out chips. If a player does both, whichever is first defines the bet. If simultaneous, a clear and reasonable verbal declaration takes precedence, otherwise the chips play. In unclear situations or where verbal and chips are contradictory, the TD will determine the bet based on the circumstances and Rule 1