Author Topic: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule  (Read 16590 times)

Brian Vickers

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 454
  • Poker Manager
http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-forum/index.php?showtopic=146885

Hardest rule to enforce logistically without looking like a jerk.  Goes against natural order of dealing.

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3358
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2013, 09:28:06 AM »
Another new rule that sucks! The way I see it: that's two Summits in a row that added more controversy to rules, than solutions to some old ones that still need fixing.

I fought on the forum for two years trying to change Accepted Action. It was a waste of time. I'm sure the First Card Off Rule will remain as well. Yet no one has ever explained; what terrible happening occurred that would warrant, or justify the need for Accepted Action, or the change from last card dealt to first card off!

Thanks Brian...at least you came forward and voiced your honest opinion. For that I give you credit. We need more members like you that will speak up when they don't agree with a change, instead of always accepting every new rule...well, just because someone said they should. :(
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 09:35:11 AM by Nick C »

K-Lo

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 869
  • @AskTheTD on Twitter
    • Ask the Tournament Director
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2013, 12:09:26 PM »
I think the comments to the post are more telling.  Clearly, opinions on this issue are split.  What I want to know is whether he was the only one standing?  And if so, and if it is not a big deal, why isn't everybody else standing?

I do think the dealer may have been a bit over zealous here, but I am not 100% convinced that the situation wasn't contrived to create drama.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 01:31:38 PM by K-Lo »

MikeB

  • Administrator
  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1156
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2013, 02:09:23 PM »
There's many who agree....  But also many who don't.

IMO, this is one of the more objective opinion threads:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/seat-rule-dnegs-whining-1368879/

Currently at 8 pages and an objective count of the posts is clearly in support of the new rule. Last I checked yesterday evening it was 43 in favor, 9 opposed, and about 10 neutral. Those figures can be off somewhat depending on your interpretation of the post itself, but they aren't far off.

Regardless of where you stand on the rule it shouldn't be lost that now, wherever you play in the world, there is one common standard... a major step forward in itself.


Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3358
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2013, 07:58:27 PM »
Mike,
 I'm sorry but, I don't understand your last line: "Regardless of where you stand on the rule it shouldn't be lost that now, wherever you play in the world, there is one common standard... a major step forward in itself."

MikeB

  • Administrator
  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1156
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2013, 09:03:48 PM »
.... establishing one common standard worldwide, rather than one standard in North America and another everywhere else is a major goal of the TDA membership. It helps players who participate in tournaments all over the world know what to expect, it helps traveling dealers and floor staff have one set of procedures to enforce, not two or three or more.... that's really the reason the TDA started in the first place: different rules everywhere made for alot of confusion.... hence:

"Regardless of where you stand on the rule it shouldn't be lost that now, wherever you play in the world, there is one common standard... a major step forward in itself." So it's important to ask: "do I prefer one rule or two on this?"

....And another thing not to be lost: there are now thousands of "tournament hours" played with the first card rule. How many Poker Stars Live events have there been over the past three years? And the players have adapted, it isn't like this is an untried experiment...  
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 10:17:00 PM by MikeB »

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3358
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2013, 08:45:22 AM »
Okay Mike,

 I finally figured it out. The First Card Off Rule was introduced as a diversion! This would shift all the discussion and negativity away from; the more important rule that should have been addressed...Accepted Action! :D

 I'm done complaining for now. I just hope we don't start messing with any other old standards. I woke up in the middle of the night...from a dream. In my dream, I was at the next TDA Summit. During the Summit, it was suggested that all hands would be dealt counterclockwise! :o  I was screaming...but, nobody heard me! Shortly thereafter, the new rule was introduced! Still dreaming; I attempted to run to the table where the board members were assembled, fell from my bed hit my head on the dresser and remained in a vegetated state for the rest of my days. I never did respond on the Discussion Forum again. I vaguely remember during rehab; a nurse holding up some playing cards and asking which was higher, a card that looked real colorful with a ladies face top and bottom, or the card with the big red letter A at the top and bottom with a heart in the middle....I never did play the game called poker again. :'(

Guillaume Gleize

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 270
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2013, 03:47:16 AM »
Not only I love the first card rule but I used from one year to slowly introduce it in my region's card rooms and casinos DURING THE HAND BY HAND (to stop the crowd from walking around between the tables during this sensible moment)! It was a marvelous innovation that all my managers & dealers loved! Because I'm sorry Mr Negreanu: I agree that we must listen the players BUT THE PLAYERS MUST ALSO LISTEN TO US IF THEY WANT US TO MAKE A CLEAN JOB IN THEIR OWN INTEREST!

 8)

« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 03:49:09 AM by Guillaume Gleize »

K-Lo

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 869
  • @AskTheTD on Twitter
    • Ask the Tournament Director
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2013, 10:25:10 AM »
Not only I love the first card rule but I used from one year to slowly introduce it in my region's card rooms and casinos DURING THE HAND BY HAND (to stop the crowd from walking around between the tables during this sensible moment)! It was a marvelous innovation that all my managers & dealers loved! Because I'm sorry Mr Negreanu: I agree that we must listen the players BUT THE PLAYERS MUST ALSO LISTEN TO US IF THEY WANT US TO MAKE A CLEAN JOB IN THEIR OWN INTEREST!

 8)


Yes!  :)

Tristan

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 453
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2013, 02:59:19 PM »
I like the rule as well. 

I see a lot of  hands walking around as a TD; I know others could see them as well.

Also, I can remember that feeling as a dealer where you make eye contact with the person walking back to the table.  Realizing in your head that unless you slow down a bit, they will be too late.  Slowing down.  Not because of favoritism, per se, because you don't want to look like a ****.





Tristan
@TristanWilberg on Twitter

Guillaume Gleize

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 270
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2013, 04:46:55 PM »
I like the rule as well. 

I see a lot of  hands walking around as a TD; I know others could see them as well.

Also, I can remember that feeling as a dealer where you make eye contact with the person walking back to the table.  Realizing in your head that unless you slow down a bit, they will be too late.  Slowing down.  Not because of favoritism, per se, because you don't want to look like a ****.

+1  8)

Still with respect for the opinion of the original poster.


Stuart Murray

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 645
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2013, 11:21:45 AM »
+1 for the like camp, any player that I have asked about it says it's the correct way to go too.

MICHAELinTO

  • TDA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #12 on: September 11, 2013, 12:35:01 PM »
As I recall, when we voted on this rule we specifically said that if a Player was "within reach of his chair" that his hand would NOT be mucked.

Tristan

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 453
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2013, 12:56:02 PM »
As I recall, when we voted on this rule we specifically said that if a Player was "within reach of his chair" that his hand would NOT be mucked.

Agreed.  Keep in mind, we only heard one side of the story here.

Tristan
@TristanWilberg on Twitter

MikeB

  • Administrator
  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1156
Re: At least one guy out there agrees with me on "first card off the deck" rule
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 08:51:25 AM »
Another interesting thread on the subject at the Home Poker Tourney forum:
http://forums.homepokertourney.com/index.php/topic,28354.0.html