Author Topic: request for count of unbet chips  (Read 15130 times)

mooredog

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Re: request for count of unbet chips
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2012, 09:44:35 PM »
Never have we had a dealer reach into anyone's stack. The player usually counts it when asked themselves or arranges it to where it is can easily seen and estimated accurately. Then, and only then if the player decides to be mute the dealer will say how much it is. In clear stacks of 20 an estimate is usually pretty easily done.

K-Lo

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Re: request for count of unbet chips
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2012, 10:47:52 AM »
if the player decides to be mute the dealer will say how much it is.

As DCJ noted, I do not believe this is the current trend as a matter of procedure... if a player decides to be mute about how much he has behind, it's not up to the Dealer to then chime in.  The chips are not yet part of a wager so the Dealer has no obligation to count it - the player who is thinking of calling needs to know how to count chips behind a player by sight - that is part of the game.  As long as they are arranged "where it can be easily seen and estimated accurately", then this should not be a problem.  

The other thing is that if the Dealer does chooses to intervene and voluntarily gives a count, and then gets the count very wrong, this is going to create a whole new series of problems that you'll have to deal with later... How are you going to explain that the players should not have relied on the dealer's count in the first place?  Why open this can of worms?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2012, 10:51:09 AM by K-Lo »

Spence

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Re: request for count of unbet chips
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2012, 10:37:34 PM »
The other thing is that if the Dealer does chooses to intervene and voluntarily gives a count, and then gets the count very wrong, this is going to create a whole new series of problems that you'll have to deal with later... How are you going to explain that the players should not have relied on the dealer's count in the first place?  Why open this can of worms?
This is the whole issue we are having about accepted action. If the dealer does make a huge error as the player you are still obligated. I think some onus should be on the dealer here to correct misinformation but not do the count for the player who is asking. As a delaer I only once had to ask a player what amount he was stacking in. Our TDA rules prefer 20 stacks. Not all players put their chips in 20 stacks. I see many players stack in 25's as it is simpler for themselves to count. I had to ask how high are your stacks for clarification. Above that I can't see why the dealer would involve himself.

mooredog

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Re: request for count of unbet chips
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2012, 01:39:25 PM »
Here's a hypothetical situation to ponder. Three players approaching the money. Player A has about 200K ,player B has about 100K , and player C about 200K. Player A likes his hand and wants to put player B to the test for all his chips but does not want a side pot and wants to know if he can survive if player C goes all in and A calls. He asks for their chip counts and they stay silent. He tells the dealer "I bet exactly what player B has left." If player B calls they'll count the chips but if he folds then what? Is it even a valid bet? Probably not. It's like saying "I bet the pot" in a no limit tourney. Not valid.

DCJ001

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Re: request for count of unbet chips
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2012, 01:46:10 PM »
Definitely not. It's like saying "I bet the pot" in a no limit tourney.

Not valid.

K-Lo

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Re: request for count of unbet chips
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2012, 02:10:26 PM »
Agree with DCJ.

If the player says "I bet exactly what player B has left", the dealer should ask for clarification.  It's not like A would be unable to count B's chips... it's up to A to identify the specific amount that he wants to bet.  If A is too lazy to do so, I have no sympathy.