Author Topic: BB Raise verbal vs chips  (Read 261 times)

BillM16

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BB Raise verbal vs chips
« on: October 10, 2019, 07:58:54 AM »
It is pre-flop,  SB 1,000, BB 2,000, and BBA 2,000. 

Everyone folds around to the SB, who calls the 2,000.  The BB, with his last 3,000 in his hand, announces "raise 3" and then puts the 3,000 on top of the previous 2,000 BB.

The dealer says: "That's going to be a min-raise to 4,000." The BB say: "I raised all-in." 

How do you rule?

« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 09:55:56 PM by MikeB »

MikeB

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Re: BB Raise verbal vs chips
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2019, 09:55:22 PM »
You'll likely get multiple answers here.

Personally I love the diligence of this dealer and would tend to support him/her. It's a teachable moment to the players that the declared raise amount is the total amount (call + raise), per 2019 Rule 43-B.

OTOH, the player did have the entire 3k in his hand and put it out in one motion. So, ultimately for me it will come down to the length of pause between declaration and chip placement. If it's nearly seamless I'd favor allowing the all-in here and use the chip placement as "other clarifying information" of the verbal declaration per 43-B. However, if there was any hesitation I'd go with the dealer's ruling of 4k total.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 10:10:30 PM by MikeB »

Dave Miller

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Re: BB Raise verbal vs chips
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2019, 11:41:44 PM »
 "other clarifying information"

I like that. And totally agree with everything MikeB said.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Nick C

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Re: BB Raise verbal vs chips
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2019, 09:14:15 PM »
Allow the all-in. Simple. He couldn't raise to 3000 so what else could his verbal declaration be?

Dave Miller

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Re: BB Raise verbal vs chips
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2019, 12:28:05 AM »
Nick, I disagree.

After all, what if he had only 5K left and he put that out and said “Raise 5” ?
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Nick C

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Re: BB Raise verbal vs chips
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2019, 08:51:37 PM »
Dave...Honestly, the way I see it TDA rule 43 (new in 2019) defies the true meaning. If a player is facing a 100 bet and says raise 200...to me it's a total bet of 300. It will never change, and one day the TDA will change it, too. It's simple. Why do we insist on making these changes? What if the player is facing a 500 bet and he says I'll raise 500? Is it still 500? or is it 1000 that the raiser intended?