Author Topic: Wrong hand  (Read 3423 times)

Guillaume Gleize

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
Wrong hand
« on: June 11, 2013, 06:50:20 AM »
Hello Everybody.

Hope to meet some of you during the TDA summit VI

A quick NLH tournament case:

2 players at showdown: A & B

A shows a High card hand
B shows a winning pair while saying: "Hey: it's not my hand!"

Floor is called

B explains to the floor that he realizes he was winning but that he reacted naturally and fairly because he is sure that his hand at the start wasn't not this one. He thinks it happened because the table is full handed and players close to each others and that the dealer burned his hand and let another hand quite close to him as it was his hand. He says all that must have happened while he was concentrate on the other player and the bettings. ... ! ...

To be said: I was sure there was no collusion because I knew one of them (player A).

I post it because I know my ruling might be wrong so don't kill me me please:

I felt I could not make winning a wrong hand ... (saying what? "You might be wrong Sir" or "It could be a collusion Sir")
I felt I could not punish a player to be honest ... (saying what? "Next time say nothing and you win Sir")

The tournament was friendly ... I cancelled the hand and gave back all bets to play another one with same blinds positions.

MMM ...  ???


« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 06:51:21 AM by Guillaume Gleize »

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3310
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
Re: Wrong hand
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2013, 11:14:11 AM »
Guillaume,

 Wow! That's a heck of a predicament...I'm sorry but, each player is responsible to protect his own hand. That would include, never releasing the cards until the hand is over or the cards are surrendered.

 I would have to tell the player that he must be mistaken...the hand is over, he gets the pot, and the next hand is dealt.

 If your players did not object to your decision, I guess what you did was acceptable...the decision of the floor is final. I will say, you certainly have a friendly bunch that played in that tournament. No complaints is always a good thing.

Tristan

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 453
Re: Wrong hand
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2013, 12:23:53 PM »
Crazy!  Sounds like Player B was operating without enough rest and all the hands were blurring together.  I can't think of a reason that another player would collude with Player B without Player B being in on it.  And if Player B was in on it, it wouldn't make any sense to call himself out!

I can think of plenty of times that a player has flipped over their hand, and they were surprised because they thought they had something else.  Those players all had the losing hand though!

One question.  If it was Player A who had flipped up their hand and claimed they didn't have the right cards would you have refunded all bets?
Tristan
@TristanWilberg on Twitter

Guillaume Gleize

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 257
Re: Wrong hand
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2013, 05:50:37 PM »
Hello,

I hope the exposure of the situation was clear: both players ARE IN CONTROL OF THEIR HAND.
I mean both hands are in front of them and they regulary turned them faces up for the showdown.

So you two would have let the pot to B? (with respect but just to be sure of your answers)?

To Tristan: No: If player A would have declare the same thing with the loosing hand, I would have let the pot to B as the winner: very different situation in my mind.

GG

Tristan

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 453
Re: Wrong hand
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 09:14:44 AM »
Yes, I would have given the pot to Player B.  It is most likely the hand was correct and he misread or remembered incorrectly.  I don't think that Player A is entitled to any of those chips as they had a losing hand.  The other players that folded don't really deserve any money back either unless the hand was really not valid.  With that being said, I was not there.  There could have been more to the story that I don't know, and refunding may have been the best option.
Tristan
@TristanWilberg on Twitter

K-Lo

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 869
  • @AskTheTD on Twitter
    • Ask the Tournament Director
Re: Wrong hand
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 09:31:24 AM »
What a great way for B to put A on tilt! 

B has to get the pot here.  He has the winning hand.  I'd let B know though that if he is caught picking up or being given somebody else's hand "by mistake", I'd consider that cheating and grounds for disqualification - dealer error or not.  So he had better protect his own hand next time.