Author Topic: Turn and River both prematurely dealt  (Read 16526 times)

Brian Vickers

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Turn and River both prematurely dealt
« on: April 05, 2013, 12:26:07 PM »
This question has been asked similarly, but in both cases one player acted and the other player allowed the dealer to put out next card without speaking up.

Player A is all in preflop.  Players B and C both call.  Dealer puts out flop and before either B or C can act puts out the turn and river (very quickly).  Player C says "what are you doing we didn't get to bet?" 
I get called over, and now I have a turn and river both exposed before either player on side pot was able to act on any street post-flop.  The side pot players are OK with the whole board as it is and want to bet on the river, but the all-in player is not OK with this, saying that they can't just see the turn and river and then decide they're OK with keeping it out.
I agreed with the all-in player in this instance.  I left the flop out and the burn cards.  I had players act on the flop, reshuffled the deck, put out the new turn, they acted on the turn, I put out the new river.  No additional burn cards.
Neither player on the side pot was happy with the reshuffle (not that that factors heavily into any decision I make).

Did I do right or should I have let the board stay?

P.S.  I don't believe that there was adequate time for either player to stop the dealer on the flop, he put both cards out very fast.

chet

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Re: Turn and River both prematurely dealt
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 01:21:59 PM »
Brian:  I was not able to find anything in RROP v.11 that addresses the situation where both 4th and 5th streets were premature.  Maybe someone else can.  That said, and given that there had been NO ACTION prior to this error being brought to the attention of the dealer/floor, I see no other choice.  The only thing I may have done differently, since action on the flop was not yet complete, would have been to replace both premature burn cards as well as the premature board cards and reshuffle the deck.  That said, I cannot find any material fault in the way you did it by letting the burn cards stand.

Chet

Brian Vickers

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Re: Turn and River both prematurely dealt
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 02:04:29 PM »
Chet, in your opinion a reshuffle of the turn and river was neccesary then?

K-Lo

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Re: Turn and River both prematurely dealt
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 03:01:15 PM »
I would have done exactly what you did Brian (if my vote counts for anything).  Definitely reshuffling the turn and the river.  I would have done that even if there was not a third player objecting.

Nick C

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Re: Turn and River both prematurely dealt
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 03:05:50 PM »
Brian,
 I don't see anything wrong with your decision. However, the all-in player should have nothing to do with your call. I'm not sure of a rule but, I believe that there is something out there that pertains to similar situations involving all-in players. I don't even know where to begin looking but if I find it, I'll let you know.

chet

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Re: Turn and River both prematurely dealt
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 06:21:17 PM »
Brian:  I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the reshuffle.  The only thing I MIGHT have done differently would have to included the last two burn cards along with the premature board cards in the reshuffle.  In other words, I would have backed up the hand to the flop, finished the flop action, reshuffled the remaining cards and proceeded from there as though no error occurred.

And yes, I agree 100% that a reshuffle was necessary, but also REQUIRED.

RROP v11 talks about premature turn cards and premature river cards, but does not talk about BOTH being premature.  Since a reshuffle is required in both these instances, although burn cards are not included, I see no reason not to reshuffle.

Chet

Tristan

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Re: Turn and River both prematurely dealt
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2013, 07:47:35 AM »
I would have done the same Brian.
Tristan
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Stuart Murray

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Re: Turn and River both prematurely dealt
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2013, 04:38:35 PM »
Yip, had this before in more or less the same circumstance, I ruled the turn and river re-shuffled

Stu