Author Topic: Betting "Pot" in Hold Em  (Read 5957 times)

pbrannon

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Betting "Pot" in Hold Em
« on: February 02, 2011, 04:05:51 PM »
We were playing NL Hold Em and a guy tried to bet "pot". My contention that it is not a valid bet. Another player though we should count the pot and have him bet that. I know for tournaments you can't count the pot....how is it in cash game.

DCJ001

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Re: Betting "Pot" in Hold Em
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2011, 05:20:48 PM »
In a tournament, it's not a valid bet. Dealer: "The pot cannot be counted for you. How much is your bet?

It's the same in cash games.

JasperToo

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Re: Betting "Pot" in Hold Em
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2011, 05:24:03 PM »
Interesting situation.  I would argue that, as you point out, in hold-em tourney's we do NOT count the pot ever that we would have to declare his bet an "unclear statement".  He could get a penalty and should at least have to make a minimum raise.  At the very least he should be told it is an unclear bet and not applicable for this game and be required to state a raise amount (minimum at least).

In a cash game, I suppose if the table didn't mind the players could figure the amount based on the progression of bets (and I would be willing to bet that at least one guy in group knows exactly how much is in there) and then let him bet that much.  But if it was my cash game I would tell him to pull his head out and put out a minimum raise.

Nick C

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Re: Betting "Pot" in Hold Em
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2011, 07:36:25 PM »
Most of the time you can see how much is in the pot, and I see nothing wrong with the dealer telling the players how much is in the pot if asked. This is in a cash game, of course

chet

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Re: Betting "Pot" in Hold Em
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2011, 09:34:08 PM »
For Tournaments refer to TDA Rule 35.  which basically says, dealer will count the pot in pot limit only...the pot will not be counted in limit and no-limit.

RRoP Section 14:  No Limit and Pot-limit Intro paragraph says in part, "...The player is responsible for determining the pot size at n0-limit, not the dealer.  The dealer is responsible for determining the pot size at pot-limit..."  Section 14 of RRoP applies to cash games.

Hope this helps!

DCJ001

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Re: Betting "Pot" in Hold Em
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2011, 09:59:01 PM »
In a cash game, I suppose if the table didn't mind the players could figure the amount based on the progression of bets (and I would be willing to bet that at least one guy in group knows exactly how much is in there) and then let him bet that much.  But if it was my cash game I would tell him to pull his head out and put out a minimum raise.
Most of the time you can see how much is in the pot, and I see nothing wrong with the dealer telling the players how much is in the pot if asked. This is in a cash game, of course

It's my impression that one of the primary reasons that the pot is not counted in No Limit is a little rule called "One player to a hand."

Dealers and players are not to assist players when making decisions or calculations in the game of poker. Players should rely on their own knowledge, skill, and intellect while competing for money.

Stuart Murray

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Re: Betting "Pot" in Hold Em
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2011, 06:33:34 AM »
35.   Pot Size
Players are entitled to be informed of the pot size in pot-limit games only.  Dealers will not count the pot in limit and no-limit games.

Therefore in No Limit tournament betting by 'pot' is not a valid bet and the pot shall not be counted, although the dealer can spread the pot to make it easily viewed (see my version of TDA rule 35 below as adopted by my league)

POT SIZE Players are entitled to ask for a count of the pot in Pot Limit games only, in No Limit and Limit games players
may request that the dealer spread the chips to make the pot easily viewed.

Betting the 'pot' is only valid in POT LIMIT games (primarily PL Omaha) irrespective of whether it is Cash or Tournament Poker.

Regards
Stuart

Nick C

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Re: Betting "Pot" in Hold Em
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 07:48:39 AM »
Okay, if I ever deal in a game when a player says; "I want to bet the size of the pot," I'll tell him to count it himself. I guess my answer is wrong. I think mostly because; 1) it never happened to me...2) Who can't tell how much is in the pot by looking at it?... 3) Dealing mostly limit games when it was irrelevent.
 My first casino job was dealing at the Marina in 1979, at that time we used coins and took a 10% rake. The main game was seven card stud $1 to $3 spread limit. The ante was 25 cents and the bring-in was 50 cents. We had to know exactly how much was in the pot because we broke the pot size down to calculate the correct rake. If the pot consisted of $29.50 we would have $2.75 off on the rake slide. We had a 10% rake with (If I remember correctly) a three dollar max. I guess, it was never a big issue back then and the dealers would comply with just about any request from one of the "toking patrons."
 So, if you are dealing, and a player asks you how much is in the pot (and it's not pot limit), you can tell them that you are not allowed to devulge that information in compliance with rule #35 of Robert's Rules of Poker. Sounds good to me.

pineforest

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Re: Betting "Pot" in Hold Em
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2011, 12:51:52 PM »
I've had this happen many times before.  I just tell the player that pot is not a valid bet in no limit, and ask them again how much the would like to bet, as they have already declared a bet.