Author Topic: out of turn chips tossed into pot  (Read 8654 times)

mooredog

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out of turn chips tossed into pot
« on: December 04, 2010, 07:06:31 AM »
In a local tournament, after the flop player A bets $1000 then player C says call and tosses $1000 into pot forgetting that another player (player B) has yet to act. Player B goes all in for a lot more. Player C says "fold" and picks up his $1000 from the pot and puts it back into his stack. A couple players say it stays in the pot. Supervisor is called and agrees by saying "In this cardroom all chips thrown into pot stay in pot even if out of turn". Fair enough. Local card room rules trump other rules. Player C said "TDA rules say because the action changed I get my chips back". How do most rooms rule on this?

chet

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Re: out of turn chips tossed into pot
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2010, 08:44:48 AM »
Mooredog:  I believe that TDA Rule 29 is applicable here.  Even though Rule 29 is titled "Verbal Declarations", the second sentence says:  "Action out of turn will be binding if the action to that player has not changed".  In our example, I believe that Player C should be able to retract his call, since the raise by Player B certainly changed the action.

That said, there are many, many card rooms that claim to "follow TDA Rules", but for just as many reasons as there are such rooms, have 'house rules' that differ.  In some cases, it may be due to requirements of the local gaming agency.  In others it may be due to "local custom".  Regardless of the reason, the important part is that the rules be known and the application be consistent. 

Hope this helps!!

mooredog

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Re: out of turn chips tossed into pot
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2010, 12:03:24 PM »
Yes, the application of the local rule in this particular card room is consistent. They always rule that way, even in big regional tourneys that they host

Nick C

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Re: out of turn chips tossed into pot
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2010, 01:29:43 PM »
There are a couple factors that I would consider; Why was player B skipped? Were other players in the hand? I have a tough time forcing a player to leave his bet in the pot if he had no knowledge of an intervening player. If other players reacted to Player C's 1000 call, then it is too late to retract the bet. Another fact to consider, if other players reacted to the out of turn bet, it would not allow Player B to raise.

Luca P.

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Re: out of turn chips tossed into pot
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2010, 04:44:44 AM »
totally Agreed with nick C.
Furthermore, I would take into account if player C is a regular player (as it seems to be) I would verbally warn him to not act out of turn.
But again I should consider why player B was skipped.
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Stuart Murray

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Re: out of turn chips tossed into pot
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2010, 04:59:31 PM »
TDA rules allow for retraction and reconsideration of the wayward $1,000.  My rules, WSOP and many cardroom rules will require the $1,000 to stay in, which is the way I prefer it.

Regards
Stuart