Author Topic: slow rolled hand after pot awarded  (Read 5667 times)

mooredog

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slow rolled hand after pot awarded
« on: October 13, 2010, 04:23:50 PM »
Two players in the showdown hesitated to show their hands. One shows top pair and the other says "Your pair is good" but continues holding his cards, After the dealer awards the pot and begins pulling in the community cards the player holding his cards says "Wait, I have a straight." The TD ruled he waited too long and let the pot stay where it was. Right or wrong?

Stuart Murray

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Re: slow rolled hand after pot awarded
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2010, 04:55:11 PM »
Hi and thanks for posting,

by the book no not too late as the player still has a live hand and his comments of "your pair is good" is meaningless during showdown.  Until his hand is either tabled or mucked the pot should not be awarded to either player. Only at a point when all live hands have been tabled can a dealer award a pot, by killing all loosing hands off, or when a player holds the only live hand remaining at the table due to all other players folding/mucking.

That's by the book, I don't know the full story of what happened to make the TD award the pot to the player who had commenced his showdown, but in my own humble opinion I would usually rule that the player with the straight gets the pot.

I forgot - it is only too late when the first riffle or green button is pressed to mark the start of a new hand, disputes are valid that are raised before this point.

Regards
Stuart
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 04:57:01 PM by Stuart Murray »

Nick C

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Re: slow rolled hand after pot awarded
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2010, 05:17:07 PM »
Moordog,
 I agree with Stuart, if the dealer used the proper procedure at the showdown, that would not have happened. You mentioned that the players hesitated at the showdown before showing their hands. There is a proper order of showdown that should be followed but, it really doesn't make a difference in this case. The error by the dealer was not asking for the cards (so they could be mucked), before pushing the pot to the other player. Whenever I am dealing and two players remain at the showdow, I will ask to see the cards..."okay , lets see them."
when the first player turns his cards face up on the table, I will read the hand and wait for the other player to muck or show a better hand. Until that happens, the dealer should never award the pot. I don't like awarding the pot to a player that verbally conceded but, like Stuart says, by the book, the hand is live until it hits the muck.

Guillaume Gleize

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Re: slow rolled hand after pot awarded
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2010, 02:08:03 AM »
Hello,

I agree with Stuart & Nick: Error from the dealer and hand still alive. So I would give the pot to the straight.

But I would give a WARNING (with one hand penalty) to this late winner because the dealer's fault was due to the winner's attitude and our rules says in the "etiquette" that at showdown any big hand with great chances to win are supposed to be tabled quickly. I know this etiquette isn't clear and easy to apply, but that's the judgement of the floor. Personaly here as a floor I would judge the attitude of the winner as "not correct".

GG

Nick C

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Re: slow rolled hand after pot awarded
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2010, 10:44:27 AM »
Guillaume,
 You are correct in feeling the way you do about the player that told the other player "your pair is good." However, in this situation, he was not aware that he had a straight until he took another look at his hand. If the dealer had waited for the player to surrender his hand, or show it, before awarding the pot prematurely, there would have been nothing more than a little disappointment from one player and possibly a little embarrasment from the other (for misreading his hand). IMO, the dealer must assume full responsibility for this one, and the pot should have been awarded to the best hand....the straight.

Guillaume Gleize

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Re: slow rolled hand after pot awarded
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2010, 07:07:14 AM »
Yes it depend of the way it happens (decision of the floor) ... and re-reading the first post it seems that the "late winner" was maybe "innocent" and wouldn't be warned. Once again depending of the situation (and witness of the dealer).

Martin L. Waller

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Re: slow rolled hand after pot awarded
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2010, 09:33:18 AM »
Hi fellows,

It was the dealerís mistake that caused the issue. It was the players fault because he was slowing down the game while the timer was running. He should have either mucked or turned them over so the dealer could read them.

But, the dealerís instructions are clear, muck all cards except the winner and trade his cards for the pot. Itís that simple.
 
Good luck,
Martin

AleaLeedsCardRoom

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Re: slow rolled hand after pot awarded
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2010, 03:05:42 PM »
Exactly the dealer should never award the pot until he/she has all the cards in