Author Topic: miss deal or not??  (Read 8293 times)

gabesz

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miss deal or not??
« on: September 13, 2010, 06:47:16 PM »
NLHE tournament with 140 entrants,big buy in, the final table only 6 players left...utg is all in 1 million chips...button calls with 800K...dealer ask the players to showdown, button shows:QQ, the utg has no cards(probably its in the mucked cards)...floorman came,bla bla bla bla....miss deal............i think that's wrong!!!!

chet

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Re: miss deal or not??
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2010, 07:50:55 PM »
Short answer, It is NOT a misdeal.  Under TDA rule 27, a misdeal occurs in Flop Games ONLY if the first or second card dealt is exposed.  Under Roberts Rule of Poker, v.11, Section 3, General Rules of Poker:

"MISDEALS
1.   Once action begins, a misdeal cannot be called. The deal will be played, and no money will be returned to any player whose hand is fouled. In button games, action is considered to occur when two players after the blinds have acted on their hands. In stud games, action is considered to occur when two players after the forced bet have acted on their hands.
2.   The following circumstances cause a misdeal, provided attention is called to the error before two players have acted on their hands.
(a)   The first or second card of the hand has been exposed by a dealer error.
(b)   Two or more cards have been exposed by the dealer.
(c)   Two or more boxed cards (improperly faced cards) are found.
(d)   Two or more extra cards have been dealt in the starting hands of a game.
(e)   An incorrect number of cards has been dealt to a player, except the top card may be dealt if it goes to the player in proper sequence.
(f)   Any card has been dealt out of the proper sequence (except an exposed card may be replaced by the burncard).
(g)   The button was out of position.
(h)   The first card was dealt to the wrong position.
(i)   Cards have been dealt to an empty seat or a player not entitled to a hand.
(j)    A player has been dealt out who is entitled to a hand. This player must be present at the table or have posted a blind or ante."

Unfortunately, I see nothing that would apply to rule a misdeal.  In this case, my ruling would be that the UTG hand is dead, the
Button player is eligible to win 800K, the other 200K is returned to the UTG player.

btw: this is a similar situation from the 2009 WSOP, where (I think it was Katja Thater (sp)) who was all in with pocket Aces.  At the showdown, her hand had been erroneously mucked by the dealer.  The TD ruled (correctly, in my opinion) that her hand was dead and that she was eliminated.

Hope this helps!

gabesz

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Re: miss deal or not??
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2010, 08:10:03 PM »
ty for the quick answer!!!!
i tought the same....

pokerfish

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Re: miss deal or not??
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2010, 10:19:45 PM »
FYI it was Estelle Denis and it didn't bust her but it did take 1/4 of her chips...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrOXFClVO1M#t=2m40s
the video shows clearly what happened.
Jan Fisher
Jan Fisher
TDA - Board of Directors
http://www.cardplayercruises.com

Nick C

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Re: miss deal or not??
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2010, 02:02:11 AM »
gabesz,
 I agree with you, it should not have been a misdeal. Players have to protect their own hand.

Jan, It's good to see that you had time from your busy schedule to participate. We all like to hear from you. That was an interesting video, I've seen it before. What bothers me is, why did the floorman even look at the muck? If he did see two aces, would he have allowed them to play? The hand was dead. It's always unfortunate when that happens, but players should know enough to protect their own hand. Especially in that seat.

Stuart Murray

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Re: miss deal or not??
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2010, 07:29:06 AM »
agreed with all,

there is no misdeal here, it is a players own responsibility to safeguard their right to act in a hand, including protecting their hole cards.

Regards
Stuart