Author Topic: Wrong hand declared at showdown  (Read 5574 times)

Desi

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Wrong hand declared at showdown
« on: August 01, 2010, 09:32:33 AM »
2 players left in the pot, Player A declares two pair without showing his hand and Player B then mucks his hand. Player A turns over his cards, but does not have two pair, Player B then claims he was beating Player A.
Im aware Player B should not have mucked his hand without seeing the winning of hand of Player A, but a lot of players in these games are relatively new to the game.
How do you rule? And would splitting the pot in interest of fair be out of the question here?
Thanks

Stuart Murray

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Re: Wrong hand declared at showdown
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2010, 09:48:41 AM »
RROP States

'An extra effort shall be made to retrieve cards that were folded as a result of mis-information' I would do my best in this instance to retrieve the players hand to award the pot to them, otherwise the pot would have to go to player A.  Player A shall receive a penalty for mis-calling their hand after the pot has been awarded.

Splitting the pot is not in the best interests of the game, it would really have to go to one player in this situation, in order to minimise the risk of collusion, I can understand you wanting to do that but for me splitting the pot is not an option, one thing I tell TD's is think of the tourney overall and not the hand itself as the overriding consideration between the two.

Regards
Stuart

Goodpokerjody

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Re: Wrong hand declared at showdown
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2010, 12:45:01 PM »
The player who mis-called his hand should be awarded the pot and possibly given a penalty.  The other player has mucked his hand and has no claim to the pot.
TDA rule #8 states:
8.   Declarations
Cards speak.  Verbal declarations as to the content of a player's hand are not binding; however, any player deliberately miscalling his or her hand may be penalized.

This tells me that no matter what a player states about the contents of his hand, I wait to see.  If a player's hand is mucked, it's dead.  We don't take cards out of the muck.

MaxH

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Re: Wrong hand declared at showdown
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2010, 01:18:48 PM »
Unless either of the players are all-in, player A wins the pot. You may decide to penalise player A if you believe their 'miscall' was deliberate.
Splitting the pot is not in the best interests of the game.
Max

Nick C

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Re: Wrong hand declared at showdown
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2010, 08:17:22 PM »
I agree that a player must protect his own hand and the hand should not be retrieved from the muck. However I do think that a dealer that is in control of the game will insist on seeing the hand that was called out before any opposing player releases their hand. Example; Player A calls out two pair. The dealer should insist on seeing the complete hand, at the same time, preventing any opposing player from tossing their hand into the muck prematurely.

Tournaments are more strict than cash games when it comes to decision making. Splitting the pot in a tournament is out of the question..... I have allowed players to split pots in similar situations in cash games. I actually had a player, that miss called his hand (causing the other player to muck his hand), give the whole pot to the player with no cards. There is a difference when a player makes an honest mistake and when a player intentionally tries to make moves on others.