Author Topic: Player falsely claimed they accidentally raised  (Read 2493 times)

Smsguy927

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Player falsely claimed they accidentally raised
« on: October 03, 2019, 04:36:02 AM »
This is from another forum. Here's the summary.
On a board of 8-7-4 rainbow, player A silently bets 7,000, a 5k chip and two 1k chips. Player B silently bets 16,000, a 10k chip, a 5k chip, and a 1k chip. The dealer announces "Raise", and player B immediately objects, and said he was trying to call. The floor reduced his raise to a minraise, and player A called. On the turn (Q), player A bet, player B went all-in, and player A called. Player A had K-K, and Player B had 6-5 for the nut straight, so player B's raise was probably not an accident. Is player B's comment acceptable, or should he be penalized?

Dave Miller

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Re: Player falsely claimed they accidentally raised
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2019, 05:42:48 AM »
I deal in a poker league, where, in the interest of keeping it friendly, we have a Mulligan rule. Fix your error, but do it quickly.

In this case, the player would be allowed to fix his chips to make it a call, IF he fixed it very quickly, and the next player hadn't acted yet.

It's hard to say if this would have applied. Since the player didn't notice the error until the dealer announced it, I think it fails the 'very quickly' part.

The bet should have stood as a raise to 16K.


I really think the only options are to let it stand at 16K or reduce it to a call of 7K. I have no idea why the ruling was to make it a minraise to 14K.



That player B had the nuts is no reason to assume that the raise wasn't an accident. Frankly, he could have intended to call, just to string player A along for another bet.

There are rules for a reason, not the least of which is so that we don't have to try to figure out what the player was thinking or intending.

Penalty? No. Maybe a warning. And it would be a very mild warning, such as, "That play looked questionable. Please be more careful."
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BillM16

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Re: Player falsely claimed they accidentally raised
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2019, 06:20:12 AM »
This is from another forum. Here's the summary.
On a board of 8-7-4 rainbow, player A silently bets 7,000, a 5k chip and two 1k chips. Player B silently bets 16,000, a 10k chip, a 5k chip, and a 1k chip. The dealer announces "Raise", and player B immediately objects, and said he was trying to call. The floor reduced his raise to a minraise, and player A called. On the turn (Q), player A bet, player B went all-in, and player A called. Player A had K-K, and Player B had 6-5 for the nut straight, so player B's raise was probably not an accident. Is player B's comment acceptable, or should he be penalized?

The fact that player B had flopped a straight does not guarantee that he was angle shooting when he claimed that he meant to call the opening bet.  The floor made a reasonable "fairness" ruling based on the above information and undoubtably other factors observed at the table.


TDA RULE #1:  Floor Decisions
The best interest of the game and fairness are top priorities in decision-making. Unusual circumstances occasionally dictate that common-sense decisions in the interest of fairness take priority over technical rules. Floor decisions are final.


Second guessing player B's motives based upon his holdings is unwise.  Enforcing penalties based on a suspicion of a player's motive is egregious.

There are a couple of other less important points here which may have been discussed in the other forum.  First, while Player B had flopped a straight, Player A could have easily caught up by showdown. So, technically it wasn't the nut straight.  Second, players of all skill levels make raises and calls for a wide variety of reasons.  When a player has a very strong hand, but not the stone cold nuts, they will sometimes raise in hopes of getting a worse hand to call or to get what could become the better hand to fold.  Likewise, when a player has a strong hand, but not the nuts, they will sometimes smooth call a bet in hopes of disguising his strength and allowing the bettor to continue betting on the next street at the risk of losing the hand if the bettor sucks out. The point here is that Player B is not necessarily lying or angle shooting.  Different strokes for different folks.



« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 06:22:32 AM by BillM16 »