Author Topic: Player asks for rule with action pending Ex: Action OOT, "what will happen if"?  (Read 780 times)

Luca P.

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 140
    • Alea Casino Nottingham
Hi all,

we are having a positive discussion between our team members regarding action OOT and a player asks the classic question: "What happens if I decide to...? and what if instead I do...?"

In my opinion, as a TD I would not give him the exact information that the question requires (I.e. telling him when action stands/re-open betting based on his action etc) as I believe it could prejudge the course of the hand.
I would rather answer something like "Your action will influence the OOT, and I'm afraid I could not give you such an information as you could use it at your advantage"

let's say someone has a weak but good for showdown hand, and an OOT bet against which he believes is a good amount to pay to see who wins. By asking what happens he could easily use it to make the OOT action stand and simply call it, gaining an advantage.

What are your thoughts?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 10:39:59 PM by MikeB »
Card Room Manager

Alea Casino
108 Upper Parliament Street
Nottingham
NG1 6LF
Tel 0115 871 7288

BillM16

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 475
Re: Action OOT, player asks for what will happen if...?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2019, 09:34:14 PM »
In my opinion, a player is entitled to ask a TD for the house rule in most situations.  Also, the TD should be obliged to provide a response that is fair and in the best interest of the game.  The response should not favor a particular action. 

In this case, a player has acted OOT and a skipped player has asked for clarification on the house rule.  If I were the TD, I would say:  "We follow the TDA Rules. The OOT action is subject to penalty and is binding if the action to the OOT player doesn't change.  Now, it's your turn to act sir."

If the skipped player presses for additional information, I would simply say that I have stated the house rule and it is now up to the skipped player to act.

Of course, players have a responsibility to know the rules when entering a tournament.  We cannot use game time to teach rules to players.

MikeB

  • Administrator
  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
Luca:
Great question, absolute 2019 Summit material.
No doubt you'll get a range of opinion on this.
Speaking personally, as a general guideline I favor giving a player basic information that they might not reasonably be expected to have. Action OOT has enough variables that a relative novice might understandably not be familiar with it.
That said, if not careful an experienced player could use it as an angle to gauge opponent's reaction... what happens if I check or smooth call, what happens if I raise... meanwhile you know the player is very familiar with what happens (because of his/her experience).
Until and unless a firm rule or guideline is adopted, such decisions are situational under Rule 1.

FWIW, the general topic of giving clarifying information to a player with action pending is also the subject of this thread: http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=1527.msg13159#msg13159
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 10:51:48 PM by MikeB »

Stuart Murray

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 645
I've faced this situation several times.  I find it better to simply address what the player asking can do and what the OOT can do also, most occasions it is an honest question as they are unsure if their action will change the OOT abilities.  Even experienced players get confused on occasion by rules and need clarification of who what when where and why, it's rarely to try and shoot angles, but even if it is, the player OOT must carry culpability and accept so for their actions - it's not the other player fault.

tommarsden

  • TDA Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2
The player who is skipped should be allowed to know what options they have  if someone acted before they had the chance to so as the player who acted out of turn is the one who should face the consequences of their action.

Brian Vickers

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 454
  • Poker Manager
As a TD I always answered in generalities, quoting exact rules verbatim and without phrasing it in response to the exact scenario at the table wherever that made sense.

Nick C

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 3215
    • http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=557;sa=forumProfile
tammarsden

 Welcome to the Forum...And I agree with your first post!