Author Topic: Raise not seen; opponent exposes cards and dealer kills them  (Read 2244 times)

Ash

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Raise not seen; opponent exposes cards and dealer kills them
« on: October 08, 2018, 06:13:46 PM »
Hi guys

River
Player 1 bets, player 2 raises, player 1 didn't see the raise and opens his cards thinking a call of player 2.
The dealer mucks the cards (thinking a fold of player 1)
What decision to take?
« Last Edit: October 09, 2018, 09:33:53 AM by MikeB »

MikeB

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Re: Raise not seen; opponent exposes cards and dealer kills them
« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2018, 09:33:30 AM »
1: If the exact cards are identifiable from Player 1's exposure, then I'd return them and he can call, re-raise, or fold.

2: If the cards are not identifiable then I'd award the pot to Player 2. It's player's responsibility to protect his hand and no refunds will be made if live cards are erroneously killed by the dealer (TDA Rule 65).


BillM16

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Re: Raise not seen; opponent exposes cards and dealer kills them
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2018, 06:58:18 AM »
Hi Ash,

I agree with Mike on the ruling in your situation described in the original post (OP).  There is a similar scenario that we can discuss.

On the River:
- Player 1 bets.
- Player 2 raises.
- Player 1 exposes his cards in an attempt to get a read on player 2.

This is clearly an etiquette violation as covered in 2017 TDA Rule #67: No Disclosure, which prohibits showing a hand to another player.  Etiquette violations are subject to penalty as described in Rule #70 and #71. 

In my area, local rules vary but usually this practice is strongly discouraged and could result in a warning and/or limiting Player 1's pending action to either folding or calling.  When it does happen, the question of whether or not to kill (fold) player 1's hand arises. 

The scenario can be more troublesome when:

On the River:
- Player 1 bets.
- Player 2 raises.
- Player 1 exposes his cards, perhaps an attempt to get a read on player 2.
- Player 2 exposes his cards, perhaps thinking he was called.

Obviously, player 1 has obtained free information from player 2, to which he was not entitled.  Others at the table may be suspicious of collusion regardless of which player showed the winning hand. 


« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 07:53:48 AM by BillM16 »