Author Topic: Putting the call amount while declaring Raise then put the raise amount  (Read 7417 times)

Boris

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Hello folks,

How would you consider the following situation ?

NLHE Tournament
We are on the flop, 2 players.
Player A bets 2K
Player B puts 2K saying "Raise". In a second time he puts all his chips (9K more) next to his 2K bet.

Floor is called

GreggPath

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Hello folks,

How would you consider the following situation ?

NLHE Tournament
We are on the flop, 2 players.
Player A bets 2K
Player B puts 2K saying "Raise". In a second time he puts all his chips (9K more) next to his 2K bet.

Floor is called

Depends on the timing. If Player B said "Raise" at the same time or before he put out the 2K, then he must raise (any amount). If he said "Raise" after pushing the 2K, then he must call.

Quote
46:  Methods of Raising
In no-limit or pot-limit, a raise must be made by A) pushing out the full amount in one motion;B) verbally declaring the full amount prior to pushing out chips; or C) verbally declaring “raise” prior to pushing out the exact call amount then completing the raise in one additional motion. In option C, if other than the exact call amount but less than a minimum raise is first put out, it will be ruled a minimum raise. It is the responsibility of players to make their intentions clear.

BROOKS

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As long as he didn't say raise AFTER putting out the call amount, that is a valid raise

46: Methods of Raising
In no-limit or pot-limit, a raise must be made by A) pushing out the full amount in one motion; B) verbally declaring the full amount prior to pushing out chips; or C) verbally declaring “raise” prior to pushing out the exact call amount then completing the raise in one additional motion.  In option C, if other than the exact call amount but less than a minimum raise is first put out, it will be ruled a minimum raise. It is the responsibility of players to make their intentions clear.

BillM16

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IMO he made a all-in raise.

Nick C

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I've experienced this more than once. As long as it's two players I ask the opposing player if he objects. I know it sounds crazy but I allowed it. As long as the hand only involved two players no collision is possible! This should draw some attention!

GreggPath

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IMO he made a all-in raise.

Based on what?

GreggPath

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I've experienced this more than once. As long as it's two players I ask the opposing player if he objects. I know it sounds crazy but I allowed it. As long as the hand only involved two players no collision is possible! This should draw some attention!

I know you don't like many TDA rules, but do you agree that according to the rules, his raise is allowed?

And you said "as long as the hand only involved two players no collusion is possible." Do you mean if there were only two players at the table? Because otherwise collusion is still possible if there are other players still in the game.

MikeB

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What Bill and Gregg said... the "Raise" declaration was simultaneous with the chip push, hence the verbal declaration rules. If the chips were pushed before the declaration then it's a call. See the rules cited above

Nick C

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Thanks, Mike

 Yes, of course, what you say is true. The problem comes from those "photo finishes" when players are arguing over which was done or said first. Another unclear action that the floor must sort out.

Greggpath, Yes...my suggestion would only be applied when the table is down to two players. I would probably rule it a raise based on what was written...but being there and knowing the players involved just might change my decision.

Dave Miller

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...my suggestion would only be applied when the table is down to two players. I would probably rule it a raise based on what was written...but being there and knowing the players involved just might change my decision.
”knowing the players” ? ? ?

So now you’re a mind reader?


The purpose of many rules is so that we DON’T have to assume or read minds. Or ask for clarification.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Nick C

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Re: Putting the call amount while declaring Raise then put the raise amount
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2018, 11:41:24 AM »
Dave,
I'm good but not that good. Knowing a player hmm, let's see if I can explain without getting a sarcastic reply.
Johnny has a bad habit of intentionally causing controversy every time he's involved in a pot, head to head with David. Johnny knows how to rattle David and he tries every time. Johnny's reputation follows him everywhere he plays...that's it...simple if you ask me.

Dave Miller

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Re: Putting the call amount while declaring Raise then put the raise amount
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2018, 04:54:51 PM »
Nick
My sarcasm wasn’t intended to be that harsh.
But I see your point.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Nick C

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Re: Putting the call amount while declaring Raise then put the raise amount
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2018, 07:26:05 PM »
No problem at all, Dave. It's easy to get caught up in these sometimes heated discussions. I enjoy and respect your input on this forum.

Motobaka72

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Re: Putting the call amount while declaring Raise then put the raise amount
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2018, 06:32:59 AM »
...
 Yes, of course, what you say is true. The problem comes from those "photo finishes" when players are arguing over which was done or said first. Another unclear action that the floor must sort out.

...

What I do in situations like this is to let the players know that they are risking not being happy with the result of the interpretation of the floor.  If you want to play it close, that is your prerogative, but it is also the floor´s decision on whether if it was close enough to be considered a raise or not. 

Nick C

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Re: Putting the call amount while declaring Raise then put the raise amount
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2018, 08:12:22 AM »
Motobaka72,

 Excellent response. If I were running a tournament I would make that announcement before the tournament begins. Not a lecture just a brief simple message. " Act in turn...make your intentions clear." Other rules could also be explained about re-buys or any special conditions that might apply but if you get those two points across, it could make a big difference when the time comes for you to make a decision using rule #1.