Author Topic: Bord without burn card  (Read 6144 times)

BIG AL

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Bord without burn card
« on: April 18, 2016, 01:49:45 AM »
Pree flop action:

A all in. B all in. Dealer show the flop without burn card. What happens with the bord?  Which decision you make?

BillM16

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Re: Bord without burn card
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2016, 06:42:05 AM »
Good morning Big Al,

Did all other players fold before the dealer dealt the flop?  Or, did the dealer prematurely deal while there were players yet to act?  Also, were the three cards dealt such that the card that should have been burnt is clearly identifiable?

If all action was complete and the remaining two players are all-in before the flop was dealt then the solution is quite simple.  The goal is to keep the board as accurate as possible while resolving the situation.  If the missing burn card is clearly identifiable in the flop, then it simply becomes the burn card and the forth card off of the stub completes the flop.

Depending on the answers to the first three questions above, the resolution could be a little more complicated.

Regards,
B~

Max D

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Re: Bord without burn card
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 08:28:55 AM »
I agree with Bill if there is no more action (this is not a premature flop) , identify the burn (should be the first card on the flop) and add one more card at the end, and you have the flop that was supposed to be there with an "exposed" burnt card.
Keeps the integrity of the flop.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 08:44:33 AM by Max D »
Max D
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BIG AL

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Re: Bord without burn card
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 03:54:15 PM »
Flop is open K76. But one of the player says "There are no burn card" Action is stop call the flor. Only two players in the heand. All in pre flop. It is impossibile to determine which card is supposted to be burned.

BillM16

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Re: Bord without burn card
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2016, 06:47:52 AM »
Flop is open K76. But one of the player says "There are no burn card" Action is stop call the flor. Only two players in the heand. All in pre flop. It is impossibile to determine which card is supposted to be burned.

In this case, the floor should have the dealer turn the K76 face down and mix them.  Then, the floor should randomly select one of the three cards as the burn and using the remaining 2 cards as part of the flop.  The forth card from the stub completes the flop.

Regards,
B~

Max D

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Re: Bord without burn card
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2016, 08:33:17 AM »
I agree with Bill on the procedure, but how can the dealer not know which card would have been first (the burn).  If the dealer flops the cards up, it would be the first card, and if the dealer flops the cards down and then flips them up it would be the last card...  I really don't see how the dealer doesn't know which card should have been the burn unless they are dealing in some weird unconsitent way.
Max
« Last Edit: April 19, 2016, 01:36:26 PM by Max D »
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Uniden32

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Re: Bord without burn card
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 08:39:02 AM »
As an added step to Bill's answer:

I'm having the dealer count the discards first to make sure that the dealer didn't actually burn a card, and move it accidentally in the discards.
Ralph Brandt
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Brian Vickers

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Re: Bord without burn card
« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2016, 10:28:48 AM »
I agree with Bill on the procedure, but how can the dealer not know which card would have been first (the burn).  If the dealer flops the cards up, it would be the first card, and if the dealer flops the cards down and then flips them up it would be the last card...  I really don't see how the dealer doesn't know which card should have been the burn unless they are dealing in some weird unconsitent way.
Max

We have to randomize because we know the player's cards and it would be too easy to choose wrong, intentionally or not.  Same reason we randomize for the 4-card flop rule whether the cards are shown or not.  We could spend the time reconstructing and backing the cards up and still get it wrong.

Max D

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Re: Bord without burn card
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2016, 08:58:29 AM »
So same as the 4 cards flop works for me and brings consistency to the procedure, but it means that in some cases it will be the same flop and other cases one card will be different which mean that if you paid attention you know what the burn is, since the cards were exposed before.  But I understand we are doing it for integrity purposes.

Max 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 10:01:17 AM by Max D »
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Dave Miller

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Re: Bord without burn card
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2016, 09:53:48 AM »
...but how can the dealer not know which card would have been first (the burn)...
It happens. Here's one way:

As you're dealing the flop, one of those cards is a double. Tends to happen more with older/dirty cards. If it's the first or second card dealt, then the fourth card in the stack is the burn. If it's the third card dealt, then it's the third card that shoul be the burn for the turn.

Then, when you flip and spread them, the cards can do funny things further confusing things. That's a four card flop.

The forgotten burn? The flopped cards canbe similarly confused.

Bottom line, the scramble and random card is the best solution.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 09:55:27 AM by Dave Miller »
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Nick C

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Re: Bord without burn card
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2016, 09:14:16 PM »
Here's an interesting old post from years ago:  http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=289.0