Author Topic: folding out of turn  (Read 12391 times)

Lonebird

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folding out of turn
« on: April 03, 2010, 02:03:46 AM »
the big blind doesnt realize he is the BB and out of turn he says: fold! tehre is one player before him.I said yhat he is the BB, and then he wants to play
when his turn comes he raises and win the pot.
In my opinion that is not oke!!
But, at the other hand, isnt it so that when youre out of turn that you can say evrything you want.
How to play/act further.

Stuart Murray

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Re: folding out of turn
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2010, 02:12:05 AM »
29.   Verbal Declarations / Acting in Turn
Verbal declarations in turn are binding.  Players are required to act in turn.  Action out of turn will be binding if the action to that player has not changed.  A check, call or fold is not considered action changing.

44.   Etiquette Violations
Repeated etiquette violations will result in penalties. Examples include, but are not limited to, unnecessarily touching other players’ cards or chips, delay of the game, repeatedly acting out of turn or excessive chatter.

So in your example the BB's hand is live again as the action HAS changed to him so he can reconsider his actions.  had the raiser merely called he would of been bound to his 'fold' statement.

I would also be considering some kind of penalty/warning for the out of turn verbal declaration.

Best Regards
Stuart

AleaLeedsCardRoom

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Re: folding out of turn
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2010, 11:56:02 AM »
I have heard a variation to this rule that says if a player acts out of turn and action changes then they can change their action BUT may only act up to their original statement.  For example someone calls out of turn and the bet is raised, he may then only fold or call but not re-raise.  So in this situation by this variation the player could only fold.

I would like to hear your thoughts:)

Lewis

Stuart Murray

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turn
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2010, 05:15:18 PM »
Sorry Lewis,

I forgot to include that to my last post,


yes, a player who announces fold out of turn shall still have a dead hand IMO but by the book if the action has changed their action can 'technically' be retreived.

There are very few occasions I can think of off the top of my head that I would rule the hand live.

Best Regards
Stuart

Nick C

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Re: folding out of turn
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 06:18:51 PM »
lonebird,
  I guess you could say that anyone can say anything they want out of turn, but in poker, they could be held to that action. Rule #29 Verbal declarations/Acting in turn are easy to understand. Players must act in turn: to me that means if they don't, there will be consequences. I really think there are too many details that are left out to make a good decision. Was it pre-flop? Was the other player the small blind? I question wether I would allow a raise from a player that said he was folding, only to be told that he was the big blind and was already in. I am assuming this is the situation and if I am correct, in my opinion the BB could only call. The action must have been backed-up to the proper player for the BB to consider a raise, right?
 To answer your questions; I think that you were right when you said that it was not okay,  and I know you are wrong when you say that a player can say anything they want just because they are out of turn.

 That's the way I see it,
Nick C

Martin L. Waller

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Re: folding out of turn
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2010, 12:33:35 PM »
Lonebird,

In your example the raise was made by the BB so action hadn’t change to him. In that case he shouldn’t be allowed to raise.

I see many dealers, myself included, that will give some leniency to players. For example, if a player in the BB was to push his cards towards me I will remind them of their position before I muck their hand. This falls under Rule #1 instead of just following the letter of the rules and grabbing the cards.

Since you allowed him to keep his cards you made his hand “live” but he should only be able to check or fold since the action hadn’t changed.

I would also mention that it is the players’ responsibility to be aware of the action in the game. He should get a warning.

Martin