Author Topic: Discuss on PR-5-B  (Read 6916 times)

Terence Bertault

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Discuss on PR-5-B
« on: October 01, 2015, 11:35:19 PM »
Hi guys,

I don't understand the rulling you have made for the PR-5-B ...

For me, it doesn t represent the best equity we can do on this rulling ...

I have always learned that we don't have to change order of cards when a hand is launched.

For me, and I'm just a little TD, I think we have to :
- put the premature turn on the side
- burn the river burned card
- deal the river, closed, and put it at the river place and maybe put a chip or the All-in button on protection on it
- take the premature turn card and put it back in the stub and reshuffled.
- waiting the end of the flop action
- redeal a new turn

The river card will be the real river card !

A TD must be at table during this process obvious.

Why changing a hand, maybe make a player touching his draw on turn and not on the river. You make him win the turn bettings round ... It's quite unfair for me ...

Are you affraid about a player opening the river card who is closed ? Just bust him from the tournament in my opinion for this case ...

I hope you understand me, what I want to say to you, this idea.

Just discuss about that.

Friendly regards.

Terence Bertault


  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
  • Tournament Director at the Isle Casino
Re: Discuss on PR-5-B
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2015, 10:37:50 AM »
I'm not in favor of peeling any cards off the deck and trying to keep it, "closed" as you say.

I definitely don't agree that protecting the original order of cards should trump protecting the integrity of the stub.

Ralph Brandt
Tournament Coordinator
Isle Casino - Pompano Beach, FL

Terence Bertault

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 65
Re: Discuss on PR-5-B
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2015, 02:17:23 PM »
Hi Ralph,

There is no integrity of the stub to protect by my rulling ... All the cards have to be directly put to the board with the turn and the river closed ... The action retake on flop ...

The dealer can release the stub to protect the board with the TD control ...

Ordering the stub is clearly the most important for players and for me ...

Ex : Player A ve got trips on flop vs Player B with a flush draw
The turn is prematured and with the TDA rulling the flush come on turn ...
Player A shove and Player B snap him obv ...

Is that hand should have been this way if the stud haven t been disordered ? ( oula is that sentence is english ? lol )

Clearly not so it's quite unfair guys ... You will leave the busting player on a bad experience with a very bad memory ... eliminated by a cards accident not by his game ...

Maybe I'm wrong but it's an EPT rulling I think ... I see Thomas Gimie doing this two years ago ...

Brian Vickers

  • TDA Member & Veteran Poster
  • ***
  • Posts: 454
  • Poker Manager
Re: Discuss on PR-5-B
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2015, 12:22:35 PM »
 I have often seen the proposal that we try to "protect and save" the river card the way you've described but there's a major reason why your proposal is not the way it's run: too much could go wrong.  By leaving the river card face down in the river card position we have set ourselves up for the predicament of that card becoming accidentally dragged into the muck pile or having other cards folded/mucked into it by a player.  You would also impact game protection as there is the risk of that card being exposed when it is brought onto the table or the card being known because there is no burn card on top of it in case it was a marked card (the entire reason the next street is always covered by a burn card). 

A lesser reason is that it could further impact the length of the hand.  Often a bet on the turn card takes down the pot; all those times where we are burning again, placing and covering the river card, shuffling the exposed turn card into the stub and delivering it only for that river card not to be used at all cost players clock time and on live games impact us on hands per hour. 

When we deliver the new river card with our existing rule we are not shuffling the card into the stub unless a river card becomes necessary so there is no wasted time.  We are also not shuffling the card into the stub until right before we are ready to deliver it (so there is no worry about a known card being on top of the stub if it were marked or exposed) while there is still pending action on the new turn card.