Author Topic: Misdeal or dead hands  (Read 5486 times)

WtchyWmn57

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Misdeal or dead hands
« on: August 21, 2014, 02:06:52 PM »
We are playing no limit holdem in a tournament.  Players are dealing the hands.  8 handed play.  Dealer Seat 7.  Player in Seat 4 gets his first card, but when the deal was dealing the 2nd card it didn't quite get to him and he took Seat 5 second card.  Seat 5 said that is my card and Seat 4 said I don't know which one.  Seat 5 says it is the top card, but Seat 4 says it isn't.  Floor is called and the decision is a misdeal.  I stated after the decision as a note that I believed they would have dead hands and that misdeals are not called that often.  I am curious what you would have called in that situation?  Would you say in fairness that it would be a misdeal, would you say Seat 5 pick a card?  Or would Seat 4 and Seat 5 have dead hands?  HOw does this fit with the rule that everyone must be dealt a hand?  All comments welcome!

Nick C

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Re: Misdeal or dead hands
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2014, 03:32:41 PM »
Welcome to the Forum.

 Your situation is pretty rare. I would be in favor of a redeal. I would base my decision on two factors: #1 The incident occurred before any action has been taken and #2 The uncertainty of the proper card to either player.

 Once a card is somehow intermingled into another players hand, the player with too many cards would have no possibility of competing for the pot. I'm not quite sure if the TDA has a specific rule to cover your scenario, other than players must protect their own hand, but killing the hands is too extreme, in my opinion. Gather in the cards, reshuffle and deal again.

chet

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Re: Misdeal or dead hands
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2014, 06:29:09 PM »
Nick:  I don't think the situation is as rare as you think.  Remember this is a "player deals" game as is quite often found in home games or bar events.  In most locations, the local authorities will not bother these games as long as the sponsor or entity running the game is not taking a rake and if there is no rake there is no money to pay for "dealers" professional or not.

That said, I agree with your decision to rule this a misdeal.  However, I would be inclined to give both players a stern warning that they must protect their hands and in the future, should either or both be involved in a similar situation, I may rule differently (dead hand or hands).

Chet

Nick C

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Re: Misdeal or dead hands
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2014, 05:51:53 AM »
Hello Chet,

 You're probably right when you point out the bar league and self dealt games. I still believe a re-deal is the best solution. Consider the same scenario that could involve the blinds? Killing those hands might be too extreme...do you agree?

Brian Vickers

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Re: Misdeal or dead hands
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2014, 05:08:39 AM »
IMO: Mis-deal if no Significant action, dead hands for both if Significant action.

Nick C

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Re: Misdeal or dead hands
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2014, 05:32:33 AM »
Brian,

 I can not imagine significant action taking place before players realize they have the wrong number of cards, but I do agree that significant or substantial action could change my decision.

WtchyWmn57

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Re: Misdeal or dead hands
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2014, 12:08:00 PM »
Thanks for your replies, I am glad there was some discussion.  It helps with making decisions when I am the TD!

Chucky

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Re: Misdeal or dead hands
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2014, 02:50:03 PM »
What Brian said
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