Author Topic: Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB  (Read 9897 times)

madkiwi9

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Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB
« on: March 06, 2010, 07:22:20 AM »
Last night had one of those technicalities

Blinds 1000/2000
Antes 200

SB in for 1000 & Ante 200
BB only had 150 chips left i.e not even enough to cover the Ante

Players questioned that the BB should have move to the next player (UTG)
And then furthermore that the minimum call was 1000

What should have been the correct ruling in this situation.

I made the calls which I believed were correct, but before I divulge what these were, I love some feedback on this!?

Thanks a mil! ???
Russell Miller
Southern Cross Poker

Stuart Murray

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Re: Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2010, 10:50:16 AM »
The big blind is still in force at 2000, so anyone would have to call 2000 to play.  Obviously the BB would be all-in for 150 so could only collect 150 off each ante should he win the hand.  Allowing anything else other than 2000 to play would/could change the outcome of a tournament.

I forgot to add - the big blind will not move to the next player irrelevant of how much the BB has, even if he had only a 25 chip he is still in the BB.

Regards
Stuart
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 05:36:57 PM by stuamurr »

Georg

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Re: Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2010, 04:19:45 PM »
I agree with Stuart.

The BB is all in with 150 so the main pot would be 150 times the number of players. anything above will move to side pot.

Georg

Captainseb

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Re: Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2010, 08:03:10 PM »
in this particular situation if you mention that that UTG as to call the 2000 Right

Then if UTG +1 said raise what is minimum that he should take out of is stack and then Button said re raise what is minimum bet

 Math and tought would be appriciated

Thanks

Sebastien 

DCJ001

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Re: Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 08:19:22 PM »
in this particular situation if you mention that that UTG as to call the 2000 Right

Then if UTG +1 said raise what is minimum that he should take out of is stack and then Button said re raise what is minimum bet

 Math and tought would be appriciated

Thanks

Sebastien 

A raise from UTG+1 = 2000 + 2000 = 4000. If Button then would like to reraise, with action of 4000 to him, add the previous raise of 2000 = 6000.

Stuart Murray

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Re: Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2010, 05:13:45 AM »
seb,

Ditto  DCJ001 reply the min raise in each case would be 2000 first to 4000 and so on.  The 2000 BB is still in force throughout even though it is not possible for the BB to post this amount.

Regards

Stuart

Captainseb

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Re: Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2010, 06:32:11 AM »
Thanks

In a previous post I ask the same question and you answer that the raise (in this math) should be 2150 and reraise should be 2300

Can you clarifies a little more   

Thanks

Sebastien

Georg

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Re: Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2010, 06:39:30 AM »
The fact that the player in the BB only has 150 to post, does not change that the BB is still 2000. So only to call, UTG must post 2000 and this is not considered a raise, it is the call of the BB! The first raise preflop must be twice the BB so 4000.

Georg

Stuart Murray

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Re: Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2010, 10:29:15 AM »
Seb,

as per georg reply the big blind is still 2000.  If the BB seat was all-in for 1800 (1000/2000 blinds) (200 ante 1600 main pot) each respective player would still have to either call 2000 (the BB forced bet) or raise a minimum of 2000 to play with the extra being established into a side pot:

example 1:

sb2,000 bb4,000 a500 10 players

bb seat is all in with 3,200 (so 2,700 + a500)
utg (4,000 to play) calls 4,000
cut-off raises (min must be 8,000) to 11,000
all others fold
utg calls 7,000
main pot would be 3x2,700 + sb2,000 = 10,100 + a5,000 = 15,100
side pot would be 2x1,300 = 2,600

example 2:
blinds 100/200 10 players

3 players (sb bb & button) see a flop with the pot at 600
sb checks, bb bets 300, button moves all in for 480, sb announces raise (min 300 to at least 780)

example 3:
3 players blinds 100/200
a checks, b pushes all-in for 150, c calls
player a can only call or fold this time as their has not been a full bet made by player b and he has given up his oppertunity to raise by checking the round. If player C raised he would be able raise again

In all events the big blind stands as the pre-requisite for playing your cards.  Here's a quick video of Steve Frezer, one of the WSOP TD's talking about 5000/10000 level when the BB has only 5000.  Bear in mind he is talking about pot-limit though which is slightly different as the pot size determines betting limits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmsDtNwp89g

Hopefully you will understand the under raise and under forced bet issues better.  If you do need further clarification please do not hesitate to post up.


madkiwi9

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Re: Not enough chips to cover Ante and BB
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 08:52:50 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback

Appreciate it as that was the decisdion that i made.
ante's posted @ 200 with a side pot and utg had to call 2000 to play!

so thanks again!
Russell Miller
Southern Cross Poker