Table talk

[MaxH]

Nick,
In that case why not allow this table talk for multi-player pots and not differentiate between being heads-up?

[Nick C]

MaxH,

  I stated earlier that with more than two players, collusion is possible. I would never allow that kind of table talk with more than heads up action. There is a big difference.

[higavin]

Most of the questions I address on 2+2 forum are about cash games and that is what I was thinking when I posted before.  Yes, in a tournament the comment would be suspevt at least.
The entirety of the situation would have to be considered before making a decision however.  Someone else mentioned this.  How deep are we into the tournament?  Do the two players know each other away from the table.  Would a call by the player who folded put him at risk?  Did they bet someone out of the hand before the comment was made?
Do I know the players involved?  What is their history in the room, if any?

With enough information, I would at least warn the player. I would likely have him show his hand.  If in fact he had the nuts, it could be more than a warning.  If he lied about his hand, there's nothing wrong with that but he would be warned that he should not comment on the strength of his hand, even heads up in a tournament.

[Nick C]

Max,

Thanks for getting something started. I would think that with 949 members, we would have a little more activity on the Discussion Forum. I imagine the WSOP taking place has a lot to do with it. Interesting comments by the few that did respond.

Thanks for keeping me thinking about these crazy senarios.

[bj03sm]

At my tables I do draw a line between banter and table talk between players and those players trying to influence the outcome of a hand, Nick does have some valid points about it being heads-up however the above still applies for me, saying you've got the nuts could effectively be like exposing your cards - would you allow that heads-up?

An excellent thread covering this very subject is on the Hendon Mob Website, in a series called your the tournament director, with the likes of Matt Savage replying on situations and be found here:

http://www.thehendonmob.com/tournament_director/ive_got_aces_and_iam_allin.html

I definitely believe firmly whether heads-up or not that by stating you have the nuts you are trying to affect the action of that hand and therefore it is not in the best interests of the game, whereas questioning the other player with phraseology such as "You got a flush" "You got the ace, I think you have the ace" are more acceptable, I recently saw a situation where Gus Hansen viewed Huck Seeds hand whilst Huck was facing a bet, whilst it is a violation of the one player to a hand rule it did not damage the game as Gus was all-in.  That kind of situation is reverse information where the player is not giving information on the contents of their own hand to the other player, and IMO borderline acceptable, effectively telling someone to fold is not acceptable in my eyes however.

I had a situation where a beginner questioned another player as to their hand and they replied a high pair, the player called and the opponent turned over the nut flush, I let it go with a warning as although he was deceiving his opponent, he was still giving information I don't believe should be open - your hole cards are just that and IMO the should read themselves only ever at showdown, I have even saw myself when heads up in a situation where I flopped the nut full, and the river completed a four card broadway straight, with only the ace required, I bet into the player with speeches such as "I don't think you have the ace, Have you got the ace?" this type of table talk in my eyes is acceptable as I am not turning to the player and trying to influence his decision - I am misleading my opponent by my statement on his hand.

Stuart

I agree with you on there are differences in table talk. I don't really have a problem with a player being bet into on the river heads up and him asking "did you make a straight". In a heads up pot I think asking a question like this is acceptable, but I would not allow it in multiway pots. I think it is taking too much from the game if we tell them that they just have to sit there and not say anything to each other in heads up pots. I am not going to let a player sit there and question a guy for 5 minutes or anything, but am ok with a question such as "do you have an Ace". Do most people go with the rule that there is no asking questions or talking about a hand in any way period?

[MaxH]

Totally agree and there is a huge differnce between asking, 'Do you have an ace?' and stating, 'I have the nuts!'.
Heads up (where I play) there is talking about a hand in a 'banter' type of way but it falls far short of stating specific hands that a player holds; this is akin (IMHO) to showing a hand which I would certainly not allow.
Best,
Max