Abusive or Offensive Language

[Tristan]

How do you all feel about this subject?

In our tournaments, I only address language concerns if there is a complaint.  If it is directed toward another player or toward staff, I do not have tolerance for it.  If it is not, however, I just warn the player to refrain in the future.  If it is a repeat offender, then I'll start looking at penalties.

The other local card room in the area just started a strict zero-tolerance for f-bomb rule.  If an f-bomb is said, in any context, the player gets an automatic orbit (minimum).


I feel that dealers either love or hate to be the 'bad guy' depending on who they are dealing to.  Are they a good tipper on the cash games?  Are they not?  Some dealers will be the boy/girl scout and hear a player whispering a joke to their neighbor with an f-bomb in it, and they will call "Floor!!".  Other dealers will take the approach that they didn't hear anything, unless another player says something.  That inconsistency will lead to upset players, in my opinion.  Also, I don't feel that only the f-bomb is offensive.  There are plenty of other words that are actually more offensive.

Most of the time, though, the player is just releasing a moment of frustration and it is not necessarily offending anyone.  Also, if someone says "This f'n sucks!" are they really being less offensive?  The intent was the same by what they said, and we all know what they meant...they just adjusted the word to get through the loophole of the rule.

Edit:  I should add that we do not have many issues with this at our place.

[MikeB]

Tristan: Interesting post. My thoughts:

"Offensive" is both absolute and relative. For example, "abusive behavior" in a polite parlor game is not necessarily going to be abusive in a rowdy frathouse... so the TDA just says abusive behavior is poor etiquette, and leaves that to the TD to determine in each specific case. For example, while the f-bomb is a common violation, it's not specifically noted as such in TDA.

On the other hand, throwing a card off the table is absolutely offensive in all venues, and thus noted as such in the rules.

So basically I agree with your policy.... you have to adopt your relative standards to the venue and the players at hand.

[K-Lo]

I hear that giving penalties for foul language is falling out of favor these days, both with TDs and players generally.

As a player, I remember being at a WPT event, and any occurrence was subject to penalty (escalating for each subsequent offence). But I have not seen a penalty given anywhere else.

If there is any chance that someone could interpret the vulgarity as being directed to a particular person, this is something I also will not tolerate, and I will give a warning/penalty+ regardless of whether someone complains. Also, if someone uses that language (f-word or otherwise) "loudly" ( which is a bit subjective I admit, but I am contemplating the player screaming it out so that everyone in the room can hear it ), I would usually also give at least a warning... and tell the player to use his inside voice when voicing his frustration.

Otherwise, I will tend to let it go.

As an aside, I usually don't get complaints from players about other players' foul language, except in situations where that language is not English, interestingly enough ("This guy keeps muttering X which means Y in such and such language").

[Nick C]

I agree that some instances, when inappropriate language is used, may be offensive to some.  If a house rule has a strict zero tolerance, it must be enforced. However, I am more inclined to consider the reason for the use of foul language, and if it were directed at a specific player (for example), in anger as opposed to a funny story or joke.

I'm not trying to justify the use of "F-bombs." However, verbally lashing out at any player, foul language or not, is unacceptable. So I guess if there are no ladies at the table, and the guys are having their Friday night get together, it would be more acceptable than using foul language in a casino with unfamiliar players.

[Tristan]

Sounds like we are all on the same page! 

[WSOPMcGee]

Just throw them out. 

Oh wait.. that's fantasy land. Different game.