Discarding Irregularities

[secretboy]

So I have come across this situations in the last little while. I play and run a free poker league where players self deal. Lots of mistakes are made. So this pertains to rule 15B. A player mucks his cards into the muck pile. As We have always played that if player mucks into muck pile his hand is dead. Another example would be if player puts burn cards on top of his cards. Again the hand is dead. Recently players have argued that hand should be restored according to rule 15B
B: If a player bets then discards thinking they have won (forgetting another player is still in the hand), the dealer should hold the cards and call the floor (a Rule 58 exception). If cards are mucked and not retrievable and identifiable to 100% certainty, the player is out and not entitled to a refund of called bets. If cards are mucked and the player initiated a bet or raise not yet called, the uncalled amount will be returned. 

I am looking for clarification on this rule. Does player whisper into the TDA's ear and let him pick the cards to see if they are his cards. What if Player mucks his cards and it does not touch the muck pile.

Any input is welcomed
Thank you

[Dave Miller]

Reference rules 13b, 14, and 15b.


Let's begin with that last statement.

If the cards didn't touch the muck, then obviously they are identifiable and retrievable. No problem. Pull them and play them. Personally, I'd also allow cards that merely touch the much, but are still obviously identifiable.


Once they are really in the muck, the rules state that the player is out of luck. However, as we have seen on televised games, sometimes the whisper thing is in effect.

I could not find a rule to support it, other than Rule One. However, whenever I've seen it used, I've never liked the way it is implemented. Sometimes the floor will take the entire muck pile to scan for the cards and allow them to play if found in reasonable proximity to each other.

Are you kidding me?


The way it should work is this:

The player points to the card in question. The dealer pulls the cards out of the muck and puts them aside without looking at their faces. No other player, nor the dealer, should assist in selecting the cards.

Next the player should announce the ranks AND suits. Then the cards are flipped. Or whisper with a floorperson peeking if not at the showdown.

If the cards match, then he can play them. If not, then he's out of luck.

[secretboy]

Thank you for the input Mr. David Miller