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[MrPick80]

Pot limit Omaha tournament : SB 500 BB 1000. The player on BB is in allin for 300. Utg player want to raise pot. What is the right amount?

[Nick C]

The correct amount should still be calculated as if both blinds had the correct amount. This, of course, would depend on the condition that other players remain. i,e,  (raising two all-in players is pointless). Your example: Blinds 500 & 1000...pot to the UTG player would be 3500.

[MrPick80]

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[Boris]

Hello folks,

I have a different math.
The 3x + dead money math doesn't work here since the BB bet is not complete.
Pot should be 2800
Like in the old West "I call you Johnny and I raise", potting player puts the call amount (1000) then raises from the total amount (1000+500+300)

[MrPick80]

 

[Dave Miller]

Boris -
You have a point, except...
How much is a minimum raise in that situation?
It's still double the BB. Therefore, the BB is considered as paid in full when calculating pot raises.

[BillM16]

Hello folks,

I have a different math.
The 3x + dead money math doesn't work here since the BB bet is not complete.
Pot should be 2800
Like in the old West "I call you Johnny and I raise", potting player puts the call amount (1000) then raises from the total amount (1000+500+300)

Hi Boris,

According to the TDA Rules 2017 v3.

TDA RULE #54
B: Pre-flop a short all-in blind will not affect calculation of the maximum pot limit bet. Post-flop, bets are based on actual pot size.

Also, according to RRoP v11:

RRoP POT-LIMIT RULES
Rule #5:
... At tournament play, strict pot-limit rules are normally used, so there the maximum opening wager is 3.5 times the size of the big blind.

So, as Nick said, the correct amount is 3.5 times the BB.  So, 3.5 x 1000 = 3500.

Regards,
B~

The latest TDA Rules iOS App includes the 2017 TDA Rules and RRoP v11.
Click here: TDA Rules iOS App

[Boris]

Thank you guys for this explaination !

I should probably make a new reading =)

[BillM16]

It is interesting to note that the TDA Rules do not explicitly state the 3.5 times the BB formula.  I believe some tournament venue's treat the SB as a full BB when calculating the pre-flop pot.  In those venues, a pot-limit raise UTG would be 4 times the BB.  RRoP discusses this practice (SB as a BB) as common in live cash games - and then states that the 3.5x formula is common for tournaments.  I seem to recall some conversations around this in the past TDA Summits. It could be that the TDA Rules have left this option open so that either 3.5x or 4.0x could be used in different venues.  The wording in TDA #54-B rule says: "Pre-flop a short all-in blind will not affect calculation of the maximum pot limit bet."  However, it does not say that a SB cannot be treated as a BB in the calculation.  House rules would apply.

Regards,
B~

Click here: TDA Rules iOS App

[Nick C]

One other mention, for those of you that don't like dealing with fractions...you can use 7 times the SB instead of 3.5 times the BB. The same result, maybe an easier way to calculate.