Author Topic: Late Entrants Stacks  (Read 10364 times)

Martin Roy TD

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Late Entrants Stacks
« on: August 19, 2013, 10:44:18 AM »
Hi Guys,

I know we talked about the late registration, re entry, late entrants but I still have a problem with something.

I was one of the TD that encourage that late entrant should not be blind out, but the majority went in the other direction.

I just want to understand what you think about Late Entrant, should they be blind out or no ?

Ex : I buy a ticket for an Event on Wednesday for the Friday tournament, Friday morning I'm bringing my friend to the tournament but we are struck in traffic... We arrive at the tournament
1 hour late, my friend buy is ticket and received a full stack and I'm blind out... It's make no sense...

We want to sell the most tickets before the event to do a better planning, why punish those players ?

MikeB

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Re: Late Entrants Stacks
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 11:14:57 AM »
Hi Guys,

I know we talked about the late registration, re entry, late entrants but I still have a problem with something.

I was one of the TD that encourage that late entrant should not be blind out, but the majority went in the other direction.

I just want to understand what you think about Late Entrant, should they be blind out or no ?

Ex : I buy a ticket for an Event on Wednesday for the Friday tournament, Friday morning I'm bringing my friend to the tournament but we are struck in traffic... We arrive at the tournament
1 hour late, my friend buy is ticket and received a full stack and I'm blind out... It's make no sense...

We want to sell the most tickets before the event to do a better planning, why punish those players ?
Martin: Thanks for the great post. It's important to note that the TDA rules do not stipulate what happens in these situations, it is entirely house policy... and that of course is driven to a great extent by your marketing considerations.

In your example above, you have SOLD both the early registration and the late registration a full stack... You sold the early registration a full stack 2 days before the event, and you sold the late registration a full stack when he showed up an hour late. So in both cases you are fully compliant with the 2013 TDA rules...

NOW, what you do about the early registration that arrives late is house policy, in part driven by the need to keep your customers happy. I would suggest polling your regular players... ask them what they think is fair BOTH from the standpoint if they are the late arrival and from the standpoint of someone who arrived on time.

See also discussion on this thread:
http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=904.msg7999#msg7999
« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 11:52:35 AM by MikeB »

Tristan

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Re: Late Entrants Stacks
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 12:46:29 PM »
Martin -

Do you fill a seat that is empty but has a player registered to it?  What if 1 table has 3 players that are registered and have seats, but are late and all of the other tables are full...do you halt play on that table because they are three players short?  Do you move one?  If you fill a late player's seat, what if all of the seats are full when they arrive?  Are they an alternate then?  Will they be mad that they registered in advance and now are forced to wait? 

I personally think that part of the reason behind registering early is to ensure you have a seat and you are not an alternate.  If you do not show up on time, your table is penalized by being short a player, compared to other tables, while they wait for you to show up.  Part of the way to solve that is to have a stack there that is blinded off.  It accommodates the players that are there and showed up to play, and it slightly penalizes those that did not show up on time and discourages that in the future.

I like using this method as a standard.  It encourages players to show up on time.  However, I agree that sometimes situations dictate that you make accommodations.

Tristan
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K-Lo

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Re: Late Entrants Stacks
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 03:05:28 PM »
I personally think that part of the reason behind registering early is to ensure you have a seat and you are not an alternate.  If you do not show up on time, your table is penalized by being short a player, compared to other tables, while they wait for you to show up.  Part of the way to solve that is to have a stack there that is blinded off.  It accommodates the players that are there and showed up to play, and it slightly penalizes those that did not show up on time and discourages that in the future.

I like using this method as a standard.  It encourages players to show up on time.  However, I agree that sometimes situations dictate that you make accommodations.

I agree with all of what Tristan has said here. 

If you do not want to blind out players who have pre-registered, you can control that by either waiting until they arrive to "confirm their registration" and only assigning their seat then (which is OK if they are OK with waiting if all tables happen to be full - but some players will complain about having to wait after having already registered), or you can accommodate latecomers by pre-assigning seats but only having dealers put out stacks when a seat is actually filled (which can lead to some tables starting off very short-handed, potentially for an extended period of time, since now no one has an incentive to show up on time as there is no penalty for showing up late).  However, as you can see, either approach can create its own problems.  This is why I think many prefer to avoid these problems altogether by pre-assigning seats to players who have pre-registered, putting out their stacks, and blinding them out.

On a related note, I do worry that the new "guaranteed full stack" will provide a disincentive for people to pre-register and to show up on time.  Especially with tournaments that have a long entry/re-entry period and/or that do not usually fill out or keep an alternates list.  As a player, why should I make any effort to do either if you are going to be guaranteed a full stack anyways?  I have to admit - I am a lot less likely to want to commit to pre-registering if I know I will always receive a full stack by NOT pre-registering, unless I know there's a chance the tournament might be full. Let's face it - the only incentive that is given to a player who has pre-registered and who shows up on time is that he will be guaranteed a seat, and that as soon as he arrives, he will be able to sit down and play without waiting. But now players will be weighing that benefit with the penalty of being blinded out when the alternative is a guaranteed full stack.  Should we be thinking of other creative ways that can more readily encourage players to pre-register?  Or should we provide a negative incentive to latecomers (e.g. forcing them to take a stack that is being blinded out or to wait)?



Martin Roy TD

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Re: Late Entrants Stacks
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2013, 05:31:22 AM »
You guys have great points.

For sure, not blinding those pre register players create more management.

In every tournament that we host, we track the player one by one from the beginning to the end of the tournament. (Even WPT Events with over 1000 players)
We can see at any moment how many players we have at every table.

What we do with late entrants who received full stack when they are late, we always balance table after 5 minutes if we don't have enough players
to start the table. For sure it creates more management but our regular are very happy with this rule.

For me, I don't see a big difference between a Late Entrants and a player who Late Register for an event.

K-Lo

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Re: Late Entrants Stacks
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2013, 06:25:04 AM »
For me, I don't see a big difference between a Late Entrants and a player who Late Register for an event.

If you are able to keep the tables full and balanced near the beginning of the tournament, then I would tend to agree with you, Martin.

I'm curious now going forward... do you feel that there is a need to do something to encourage people to register early? 

Martin Roy TD

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Re: Late Entrants Stacks
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2013, 07:31:25 AM »
I think so, but what ?

More players who early register guarantee you that they will come to your event.

Late Registration players can always change their mind... 

Tristan

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Re: Late Entrants Stacks
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 01:33:10 PM »
More players who early register guarantee you that they will come to your event.

Late Registration players can always change their mind... 

True
Tristan
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Spence

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Re: Late Entrants Stacks
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2015, 07:02:35 AM »
This may only be band-aid to cover the gunshot but could you have an add-on for late entrants that would allow them to top up a certain amount?  For 10% of the initial fee you can purchase back any chips that were blinded off.  It means more in the prize pool and those who are late to have their choice to top up or take a blinded off stack.  I see the issue with people not being on time still though.