Author Topic: How to rule on uncalled portion of bet if hand is mistakenly mucked  (Read 3162 times)

7diamonds

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 Hi,
 I'm a new member and have a question on the proper ruling for a situation that occurred last night at our local club.
Situation: Texas Hold-EM no limit and three players remaning after the river. Player "A" makes a large raise and player "B" thought for some time then folds. Before player "C" acts player "A" , no realizing player "C" was still in the hand mucks his cards face down. My question is: Is player "C" entitled to the entire pot including the raise or does the raise chips go back to player "A" given that the raise had not been called?
regards,
7Diamonds
« Last Edit: June 06, 2010, 08:47:14 PM by MikeB »

Stuart Murray

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Re: Question on how to rule on this situation?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2010, 12:19:15 PM »
7D

By the book if player C was the only player with cards he would win the full amount,  however I would generally invoke the 1st, returning player A's river bet as it sounds as if player C has made no action in this case, and therefore we can not be sure with any kind of certainty that he would of called the river bet anyway.

Fairest way would be to rule the 1st, return the river bet and award the rest of the pot to player c.

Regards
Stuart
Stuart Murray
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South Scotland &
National Tournament Director

MikeB

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Re: Question on how to rule on this situation?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2010, 01:28:01 AM »
7D

By the book if player C was the only player with cards he would win the full amount,  however I would generally invoke the 1st, returning player A's river bet as it sounds as if player C has made no action in this case, and therefore we can not be sure with any kind of certainty that he would of called the river bet anyway.

Fairest way would be to rule the 1st, return the river bet and award the rest of the pot to player c.

Regards
Stuart
ditto. There's not a specific TDA rule on this situation but the rule 39 regarding dealer muck of an unprotected hand can apply in spirit IMO. If dealer mucks the hand of a player who has made an uncalled bet or raise, the uncalled amount should be refunded.

LeScribe

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Re: Question on how to rule on this situation?
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2010, 09:24:11 AM »
There were several posts on similar situations...

You can take a look at those two topics :


all in then muck

2 cases of hands folded, 2 judgments
Bruno
Every player wins at the end of any hand : some win money, other win experience...

DCJ001

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Re: Question on how to rule on this situation?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2010, 07:35:16 PM »
... three players remaning after the river. Player "A" makes a large raise and player "B" thought for some time then folds.

If player A was the first player to act on the river, he did not "make a large raise." He made a large bet."

If there was action on the river, not included in your post, before Player A made a large raise, then that's understandable.

I bring this up because I so many examples of televised poker in the US and UK where commentators talk about the second player to act after the flop, turn, or river reraising which is just not possible.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2010, 07:41:33 PM by DCJ001 »

Nick C

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Re: Question on how to rule on this situation?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2010, 04:27:20 AM »
All players are responsible for protecting their own hands. Dealers also have to add to the security of the game by offering players assistance, too. There are times that players are unaware of a player in the hand. A good example is a player seated in the one seat, that can't see the player in the ten seat because the dealer is obstructing their view. This is common. How many dealers prematurely deal for the same reason, they didn't see the player in the eight seat and they burn and turn. In a situation like this, the dealer can protect the players cards from hitting the muck when it is obvious that the player had no intention of surrendering their hand.
Nick C