Author Topic: 2 cases of hands folded, 2 judgments  (Read 2337 times)

LeScribe

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2 cases of hands folded, 2 judgments
« on: November 26, 2009, 09:09:40 AM »
This week-end, I held a 540 players tournament in France.
It was a freeroll satellite for the Final of the France Poker Tour.

I had 2 differents cases of hand folded which I judged in 2 differents ways...



1/ Hand live

After the Flop, 3 players still in the hand.
Player (1) bet all-in
Player (2) folds
and before Player (3) acts, Player (1) pushes his cards to fold them, thinking he was the last in the hand.
They called me. The cards were still close to the player and not in the muck.

I said that it was an unvolontary mistake and judged the hand live and ask Player (3) to act in accordance.

(for the end of the story, Player (3) folded and Player (2) showed 2 Aces...)



2/ Hand dead

Before the flop, no SB, only one BB.

Seat(1) SB : no player, seat open
Seat(2) BB
Seat(3) folds
Seat(4) folds
Seat(5) limps
Seat(6) folds
Seat(7) folds
Seat(8 ) folds
Seat(9) folds
Seat(10) raise to 3.5 BB (not all-in)

Seat(10) is looking at Seat(5) who folds his card, WHILE Seat(2) is looking at his hole cards and before he acts.
So Seat(10) mucks his cards (really in the muck) and then Seat(2) says he hasn't acted !

I judged in favor of Seat(2), as he had the right to take some time to see his cards, even if Seat(10) was arguing his cards were hidden. The fact is, they were only hidden not to be seen by his neighbors, they weren't on the leather part, nor on his knee, (outside the table).

I said that the bet of Seat(10) was lost and declared his hand dead, as he made the fault to fold his cards without being sure to be the last player standing.



Do you agree with me for both judgments ?
Bruno
Every player wins at the end of any hand : some win money, other win experience...

Georg

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Re: 2 cases of hands folded, 2 judgments
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2009, 10:32:21 AM »
1) Totally agree.
2) Partially agree. I would return the uncalled raise of player 10 and only make him pay 1 BB (return 2.5 BB)

Georg

MikeB

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Re: 2 cases of hands folded, 2 judgments
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2009, 12:12:22 PM »
Scribe your first situation is very clear.

On the second situation I would have tried to retrieve player 10's cards. But from the way you describe it I don't think those cards could be identified with 100% certainty, they are hopelessly mucked.... and he has obviously called the BB.... so the only question is what to do with Player 10's raise. Since player 10's cards were already dead and the problem was recognized before the BB could declare his action, I would favor returning the raise portion to Player 10, awarding the pot to the BB, and cautioning Player 5 about acting out of turn.

Sounds like it was a great tournament!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2009, 11:02:40 AM by MikeB »

LeScribe

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Re: 2 cases of hands folded, 2 judgments
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2009, 03:58:02 AM »
Thanks for your answers, Georg and Mike.

Next time, I will penalize the raiser for only the BB amount and return him the raised part, and of course, warn the first limper.



(btw, MikeB = former ChicagoMike ?)
Bruno
Every player wins at the end of any hand : some win money, other win experience...