Author Topic: Player announces raise when call or fold are only options: is he bound to call?  (Read 536 times)

MikeB

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This topic is subject of the following thread, see reply 3, 5 and beyond:
http://www.pokertda.com/forum/index.php?topic=1395.msg12184#msg12184

Motobaka72

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Although I would really like to give the player all his options, what if we look at this the following way:

Remember the movies when they string bet? Call your bet and then raise, then maybe every raise is a call plus a something more. 

I think it’s safe to say that a player´s intention is clearly to stay in the hand.  Calling is what allows that but…

There are situations in poker when calling is a mistake and only raising or folding are ev+ actions. A player trying to do one of the ev+ actions is denied that option and forced to call.

Dave Miller

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A player facing a small bet, who has a mountain of small chips, silently puts in an oversize chip. The value of the chip is sufficient for a raise. But we're not mind readers, we can't know a raise was intended despite how obvious it was. Therefore, the oversize chip rule.

Similarly, a player who attempts to raise in a situation where a raise is not allowed? Again, we're not supposed to be mind readers. We don't know his reasons. Folding should still be an option. And as I said in the other thread, he should be allowed to attempt the raise so the other players know his intention, should he make the call.

Why would he fold? Any number of reasons.

I'm reminded of a cash game story. Several players in early position who were friends and acting like jerks, all min-raised. A guy in late position attempted to put in a big raise but he was denied because the jerks min-bets capped the action.

Some people would say he wanted to be in the pot, so he should call. Was that his intention? Or was he trying to thin the field? Maybe he had aces and didn't want to go to the flop five handed.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

BillM16

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IMO:

If betting had not reopened to a player who indicates a raise, the player must make a call.  (This could be added to Rule #44.)

Otherwise, an angle shooter could use the illegal raise declaration as an attempt to get a read on the bettor in front of him or to get the player to his left to insta-fold.  If the bettor looks pleased or the next player looks to be calling the illegal raise, the angler, of course, would certainly fold if allowed.  Not in my tournament!

Regards,
B~
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 09:23:04 AM by BillM16 »

Motobaka72

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A player facing a small bet, who has a mountain of small chips, silently puts in an oversize chip. The value of the chip is sufficient for a raise. But we're not mind readers, we can't know a raise was intended despite how obvious it was. Therefore, the oversize chip rule.

Yes, and I can see your point but there is no need to read minds here. There is a rule for this.

Dave Miller

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My point was, we shouldn't try to read the mind of a player who tries to raise when he can't. Therefore, he shouldn't be committed to a call because of 'obvious intentions'.
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown.
But how much does it cost to knock on wood?

Brian Vickers

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My point was, we shouldn't try to read the mind of a player who tries to raise when he can't. Therefore, he shouldn't be committed to a call because of 'obvious intentions'.

Two players heads up:
Player A moves All-in.  Player B says "raise."  He's heads up and the other player is already all-in.  Should he be committed to calling the bet here in this heads up scenario?

Nick C

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Brian:

 Absolutely!