Face Up for All-in not always happening

[Steven]

Face up for All-ins has been in the TDA rules for quite some time, yet I consistently see hands being mucked at showdown when at least one player is All-in.

What does your venue do to enforce this rule?

The dealers are usually good about enforcing it under the typical all-in and call scenario, but in numerous other cases like when a main pot player is all-in and a subsequent side pot occurs, mucking quite often occurs after the side pot is decided.

Anyway, it seems that dealers could use something like a standard recommended procedure that reminds them to be cognizant of an all-in button in use and then announce all hands to immediately be tabled, and to protect the muck from any un-tabled mucked hands.

15.  Face Up for All-Ins
All cards will be tabled without delay once a player is all-in and all betting action by all other players in the hand is complete. See Illustrations.

[Tristan]

I have put it in several memos for the dealers.

I, like you pointed out, see it still happen pretty regularly.

Every time I see it happen, I talk to the dealer and explain it to them. 

It's a slow battle, but it seems to be getting better. 

[Nick C]

Hello Steven,

 I think the reason for the repeated error is the procedure that we use for cash games is different. Most dealers deal cash games as well as tournaments. Whenever the showdown is reached, we should look to the side pot winners before the pot that the all-in player or player's are contesting. In cash games, when an all-in player sees an opponents hand that has theirs beat...they can no longer compete for the main pot...that's it, so the act of not showing, or folding is the right thing to do. This is not allowed for tournaments that follow the TDA Rules.

 There are many threads on this forum that discuss Face Up for All-in's. Our rules insist that all cards be tabled by all active player's whenever any player is all in. Convincing the dealers to recognize the difference between cash games and tournaments is the only solution. The all-in button would help, but I guess the dealer's just need to be better trained...and yes, if player's insist on attempting to muck, they must be warned and then penalized.

[K-Lo]

Hey Nick:

You'll find this interesting.

I just noticed that one of my local-ish Casinos is holding a WPT event... part of their rules:

38. All hands involved in a “showdown” situation are considered live hands and cannot be folded or mucked; they will be turned face up in order to determine a winner prior to the pot being awarded.

Apparently not just for all-in situations!!  I'm wondering if this was intentional and whether it will be enforced.

[Nick C]

Ken,
 I always thought that my neighbors to the north were a cut above. I like that rule and would be very happy if I had any influence on it's introduction. I'm anxious to see how that works out...I'm sure it will take time but... always believed it would be a huge step forward for tournament poker. Thanks for letting us know.