Author Topic: All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?  (Read 9587 times)

W0lfster

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All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?
« on: March 09, 2011, 12:11:07 PM »
From looking at some of the questions asked in the TDA forum, I have gathered that if if everyone folds at showdown when lets say 1 person shows their hand and it appears to be the best hand, that player can ask any person what their cards were provided they have not entered the muck otherwise the cards cannot be shown. The player/s whos cards have been asked to be shown by the pot winner, their hands are live and must be shown. If any other player apart from the pot winner asks, that hand/s is dead and the dealer taps the cards on top of the deck and shows the hand/s. My question is though, if both the pot winner and a person who has folded or is clearly beaten by another opponent both ask a player who has mucked their cards at showdown (havent entered the muck) what is the ruling? Mucked? Or live?

Also, if lets say on the turn the BB bets and everyone calls, the river is dealt all players check, there is a showdown. Who shows first the BB with the last aggressive action or the SB. I ask because im confused as to whether it is the last betting round that decides who shows first not the rounds before it.

Thanks  :)

Nick C

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Re: All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2011, 12:40:50 AM »
Andy,
 Any Player at the table can ask to see a called hand, that includes the pot winner. Once a hand is in the muck, it is dead.

 To answer the second part of your question; TDA rule #11 clearly indicates the proper order of showdown. If I understand you correctly, you are asking if all players check on the last round of betting, do we look back at the last aggressive action on a previous round? The answer is, no. There used to be some casinos that would actually go back to a prior betting round but, that has been changed and I doubt that any card rooms still use that rule.  If the TDA rule isn't enough for you then it is the last betting round which, in your example would eliminate the SB on that round because he would have obviously checked before the BB bet.


W0lfster

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Re: All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2011, 10:06:00 AM »
Well ok not in the muck but pushed forward towards it but the dealer catches them before they hit the muck as the pot winner asked to see the cards. It could also be the player at showdown hasnt shown yet and both the pot winner and players who have already lost ask to see the cards, whats the ruling? Live or dead?


chet

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Re: All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 12:50:11 PM »
From RRoP, V 11 General Poker Rules, The Showdown:

5.   Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that was eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

I believe the last sentence answers your question.

JasperToo

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Re: All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 01:12:06 PM »
Chet said what I was going to say almost exactly.  If the winning player is silly enough to insist on seeing the hand, especially while other players are asking to see it, then he deserves to have it be live.  Plus the rule makes it rather clear anyway.

W0lfster

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Re: All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2011, 01:13:35 PM »
Chet,
Yes I understand that bit but if Both the pot winner and the losing players ask to see the player's hand is it live? or dead?

chet

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Re: All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2011, 03:27:58 PM »
The way I read the rule is just exactly what it says.  The rule doesn't say ONLY the winning player, it says "...the winning player..."
In my opinion, it makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE what any other players have to say, period!

W0lfster

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Re: All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2011, 04:01:57 PM »
That makes sense I guess, thanks Chet.

W0lfster

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Re: All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2011, 07:21:03 PM »
What if one of the players who folded preflop asks the player's hand at showdown, are the cards still dead?

Dave_The_Maori

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Re: All in then muck at showdown continued and who shows first?
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2011, 07:28:47 PM »
What if one of the players who folded preflop asks the player's hand at showdown, are the cards still dead?

In one word, yes.

As the Dealer, you should call the Floor / TD before you touch the hand in question to the muck. Once "Killed", only then should the hand be revealed.

RRoP Version 11

SECTION 3 - GENERAL POKER RULES
THE SHOWDOWN

5. Any player who has been dealt in  may request to see any hand that was eligible to participate in the showdown, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead.  If the winning player asks to see a losing player?s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2011, 03:00:42 AM by Dave_The_Maori »