Extra chips found after chip race

[K-Lo]

I noticed that the TDA Rules and Robert's Rules are silent as to what to do when chips of a denomination that is no longer in player are found in a player's stack.

For example, you've just raced off the 25s, and later, a player realizes he has 25s still in his stack.

I note that in the WSOP and EPT rules, there is a specific provision for this - they will be removed from play unless they total a chip denomination still in play.  So I am guessing if a player found 1-3 leftover 25s, they would be removed, with 4-7 leftovers he would get one 100 chip (assuming 100s are still in play), and so on.  As a further example, if someone had an entire stack of 25s in their stack that somehow got missed, it would be exchanged for 500.

Does everyone else follow this rule, and do you think the TDA version needs clarification?  Does anyone simply remove any chips that are no longer in play from the table after the race-off, regardless of their total?

[Nick C]

Hi Ken,

 I would say your assessment of the written rule is correct. I have been involved in (much smaller) tournaments where the color-up is going on while action is in progress. You can see where this practice would not work in major events but is relatively ease in a short field.

 The hand in progress will usually have chips of the lesser denomination, so we just color them up after the pot is awarded.

 As far as the WSOP and the WPT, they clearly state that chips must remain on the table so having extra low denomination chips after the color-up should not occur, so removing them from the game is probably best.

[K-Lo]

Just to be clear on the question...

The dealer colors up most of the 25s, and a chip race is held to get rid of all of the odd 25s. 

2 rounds later, someone says "hey, I have 10 25s left in my stack.  I didn't see them before".  The lowest denomination chip in play is 100.  What do you do?

[Nick C]

Interesting. I'd say that the time lapse would affect the decision. How much time is too much; and why were the chips overlooked during the race?

[Tristan]

I remove them from play.  For all I know, the dealer did race them and just forgot to grab them.

[K-Lo]

I remove them from play.  For all I know, the dealer did race them and just forgot to grab them.

Ha!  I do the same, and thought I was being too strict.

[Nick C]

I believe the three of us agree to remove the chips.

[Brian Vickers]

What about if there was no time lapse?  For instance, before the break is even over you discover 2 odd "25" chips in a player's stack, but the race has already concluded.  Either the dealer or floor overlooked them.  Options as I see are: A) Round it up B) Remove from play C) Get creative.  Give him two cards and if his high card was higher than the lowest high card, take it back from the other player's stack?  This of course requires that you remember what the lowest high card was and who it went to, so it's very impractical in most cases.

IMO if the chips are discovered before the first hand gets dealt after the race, then just round up.  After one hand, remove from play.

[K-Lo]

I don't mind that Bryan, and of course, if you find the chips early enough that you can complete the chip race properly, that would be preferable.  But do you think that by automatically rounding up, that players will have more incentive to hide chips rather than to put them forward to be colored-up (or worse, keep chips in the pocket or hidden and take them out after the break ends or just before the hand starts)? 

[Tristan]

And the other concern: the dealer does race properly but forgets to grab the raced chips from one seat.

[Brian Vickers]

You know what, I'm kinda OK with removing them from play, as long as we put it in the official rules first.  I would just hate for a staff error lead to players losing chips, but realistically we're talking about one ante at the most that they could lose.  Also, I'm obviously referring to odd amounts only, even amounts would be exchanged I presume.