Incorrect count on chips

[Luca P.]

There's an all-in and a call.
 Caller loses the pot, dealer proceed to count the stack of the winner.
 Floorman proceeds to take the same amount from the looser and pushes chips to the winner.
 here comes the trouble: while the next hand is running, player who won the all-in counted his chips and said that it was not the correct amount and that there were 5000 less.
Suddendly floorman relaizes that he took 5000 less form the looser.
TIP: looser has now onyl 4000 so it should be out.

 What should the floor do here?

[Nick C]

Linker_Split

 If either of the players in question were involved in the next hand, I would say that there is nothing you could do. It's too late.

 I have to question why the floor was involved in the distribution of chips?

[Luca P.]

to Speed up the process
what happens if dealer,player and floorman count correctly the winner's stack and there is really 5000 less?
Is this evident enough to reconstruct the hand in the best interest of the game?

[K-Lo]

My personal feeling is that the incorrect count would need to have been "appealed" before the start of the next hand.  It's an unfortunate situation, but I think it's ultimately up to the player to be counting the chips with the dealer (and in this case the floor) in order to verify the count, during the count.  Players at the table interested in seeing a person eliminated should have also stepped in and corrected the dealer or floor if the incorrect amount of chips were being pushed.  Because we are into the next hand, I think it is too late and I would rule that the play stands, IMO.

One other thing - can we be absolutely sure that the floorman actually did take 5000 less than he was supposed to, or is he relying on the winner's statement that he is missing 5000?  If there is no way to verify the loser's original balance, I would hesitate to take back the 4000 now given that the winner could simply hide a 5000 chip and lie, claiming he was shortchanged.

[chet]

This is covered by TDA Rules 18 and 19. 

Rule 18 says, "The right to dispute a hand ends when a new hand begins.  See Rule # 19."
Rule 19 says, in pertain-ant part, "...A hand begins with the first riffle  If an automatic shuffler is being used, the hand begins when the green button is pushed."

Based on the above, it is pretty clear to me that the prior hand can no longer be disputed.

Chet

[Tristan]

Yeah, I agree with them! ^^

My first thought was exactly what K-Lo brought up, that the winner could hide a chip and lie.