Author Topic: Big Blind "Folds" His Option  (Read 17066 times)

Spence

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Re: Big Blind "Folds" His Option
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2012, 06:53:19 PM »
I can't agree with most on this one. First of all, the BB is in for all bets in the original situation. Why not return his hand? That's closer to chip dumping than soft play. Would you feel the same if everyone folded around to the SB who calls and then the BB folds?
This looks like two very different scenarios with very different penalties. Folded round to the SB who calls then the BB folds IS chip dumping. The pot was never contested and there is the definite possibility of collusion. The fold should be binding and a penalty assessed to the BB for chip dumping.
It is different with there being several callers as the pot is now in contention and it would be very difficult for the BB to try and dump chips off to a specific player. If the BB was simply dumping chips for the sake of eliminating himself from the tournament, do it for him and disqualify him. Otherwise as this is player is probably a beginner issue a non-standard fold penalty. Once you do there should no longer be an issue. Players will understand not to fold unless facing a wager.

Nick C

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Re: Big Blind "Folds" His Option
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2012, 07:51:26 PM »
Spence,
 Come on, if the BB was going to dump his chips to the SB why wouldn't he just check after the flop? and let the SB bet and take it! Or better yet, make a bet and fold after the SB raises. Originally we were talking about the BB that forgot he was already in. If you want to kill his hand, go ahead, I just don't think it's good for customer relations. I will say that it is a good way to get your message across to those players that don't know what the hell is going on. Pay attention damn it! >:(

 Cheaters and chip dumpers are a little more sofisticated than folding when in for all bets.

 I also do not agree with this being soft play. I think soft play violations originated when two or more players would "gang-up" or "put the squeeze" on a player, knock him out of the hand, and then the colluding players would check it to the river, or fold when the right partner steps out with a bet. Try to find the guys that are working together, not the new guy that makes a simple mistake.

Spence

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Re: Big Blind "Folds" His Option
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2012, 09:40:28 PM »
Ok, how about this. Ignorance is not an excuse to not play by the rules. The folds should be binding and the players penalized. That will end the issue. The players who dumps chips may not know that is what he is doing but it happened nonetheless. Does that make it right? Is it still a rule infraction. I am not a TD who usually takes such a hard line approach to the rules but in this case the players need to be educated and when the integrity of the tournament is on the line you have to be firm.

JasperToo

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Re: Big Blind "Folds" His Option
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2012, 05:39:50 PM »
In a cash game most of us would just give the cards back and tell them to wait until later to fold.  But in tourney play the competition is the thing.  Consider the limped pot in which the BB stays in and suddenly flops some strange two pair or straight draw, the hand wins and knocks some short stack out of the game.  If that player is allowed to fold, then that doesn't happen and the game is changed.  Also consider the same BB that folds and now a flop comes that is good for a late position bettor but now he has one less player that he has to worry about the check raise.

So I say the fold is binding with at least a warning and penalty for repeated offense....teach them to learn the rule that way.