Author Topic: fouled hand  (Read 6668 times)

cloudtiger

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fouled hand
« on: February 01, 2012, 09:36:55 AM »

i can find nothing in the tda rules that define a fouled hand
what is the definition of a fouled hand?

DCJ001

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Re: fouled hand
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 09:48:51 AM »

cloudtiger

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Re: fouled hand
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2012, 10:18:20 AM »
binds have been posted, player A, under the gun looks at his cards in disgust and flings them with force, face down across the table where they touch player B's cards.  is player B's hand fouled and therefore dead? as TD what action do you take agains player A

chet

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Re: fouled hand
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2012, 11:37:25 AM »
In response to your first question:  From Robert's Rules of Poker, V. 11 - Chapter 3 General Poker Rules, Sub. Irregularities: 

2.   You must protect your own hand at all times. Your cards may be protected with your hands, a chip, or other object placed on top of them. If you fail to protect your hand, you will have no redress if it becomes fouled or the dealer accidentally kills it.

In answer to the second question, I need more information.  Is Player A and experienced player who should know better or is this player 'new' and inexperienced?  Is this the first time this has ever happened or is this "typical" behavior for this person?  Penalties can range anywhere from a verbal warning to disqualification.

Finally, the rules promulgated by the TDA are intended to supplement basic poker rules there never has been any intention that they 'stand alone'.  Many of us here refer to Robert's Rules of Poker as the standard for "Basic Poker Rules".  If you cannot find a copy, try Google.  I know that version 11 is available at no cost on-line.

chet

cloudtiger

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Re: fouled hand
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2012, 11:54:15 AM »
thanks chet . im checking up on roberts rules of poker now.
player A in this instance has been playing for about 6 months or and considers himself to be a very good player( his opinion, noone else's) he has a tendency to get very excitable and blame anyone and everyone when he loses a pot (especially the dealer ). when asked not to throw cards so forcefully he immediately apologises and desists. but hes always liable to re offend

Nick C

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Re: fouled hand
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2012, 11:54:37 AM »
cloudtiger:

 Fould hand

 A player is responsible for taking resonable means to protect his hand. A player who fails to take resonable means to protect his hand shall have no redress if his hand becomes fouled by contact with other cards or accidentally taken in by the dealer. Contact of an unprotected hand with another card shall make the hand dead if there is any doubt about which cards belongs to the player.

 If a protected hand has come in contact with discards, the floor person shall make every effort to reconstruct the hand and have the deal played out to conclusion. A protected hand may not automatically be ruled dead by accidental contact with discards unless it is impossible to reconstruct.

 A protected hand is when a player has a chip or object, such as a card ornament, on top of his hole cards, or the down cards are properly held in one hand (touching the table-top) clearly visible to all. In Stud the down cards are considered protected.

 A player who has a protected hand taken in by the dealer or fouled by discards is entitled to be refunded, from the pot, all chips that he put in, provided the floorperson feels the player was not a contributor to the error.

cloudtiger, while I was typing Chet offered some good advice about Robert's Rules. The definition that I gave you is from Chuck Ferry's book "RULES OF POKER." I think you will find that the above explanation is supported by Robert's Rules.

 As far as punishment you will have to determine if the act were accidental or done with intent and malice. A warning along with a penalty is appropriate. Repeat offenders or continued display of temper could result in expulsion from the tournament and a vacation from the cardroom.

cloudtiger

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Re: fouled hand
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2012, 12:36:54 PM »

i was fairly sure of the situation, but i wanted to be completely sure. thank you both for the explanation and clarification

K-Lo

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Re: fouled hand
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2012, 01:15:27 PM »
Good question, cloudtiger.  Can't add anything beyond Nick's excellent post.