Bad beat qualifier for a short stack

[mooredog]

Another non-tournament question. Our bad beat rules say $20 minimum must be in the pot for a bad beat to be valid. What if there is over $20 total out there (including a side pot) but a short stack was all in and the main pot has less than $20 in it and the all in stack has one of the qualifying bad beat hands? Do you pay the bad beat or not?

[Nick C]

Mooredog,
 I would say definetly not entitled to the bad beat.

[chet]

It would be very interesting to hear from some of our members who have legal expertise. 

Personally, since at least one player has to be a participant in not only the "short" main pot, but in each and every side pot (hence a total pot to that player of at least $20), I would say this qualifies.  My reasoning has to do with the fact that your 'rules' only say there has to be $20 "in the pot" and the term "pot" is not defined or limited to the main pot in the hand. 

If the bad beat is hit and you don't pay, based on these circumstances, is it worth the bad publicity you are going to incur?  Especially, since the money in the jackpot isn't house money, but is additional rake dragged from the players?  I think not.  Do what you think best, but fix your damn rules!!

Chet

[DCJ001]

Chet is correct.

If the bad beat jackpot rules require $20 to be in the pot, and, if you do not pay out when there is a pot of at least $20, there will most likely be a problem.

If you'd like a requirement for the main pot to be at least $20, you can say it in your rules.

This is really a straightforward question.

[K-Lo]

I would think this should be paid out.  $20 minimum guarantees a minimum rake for that hand to be paid to the house.  From the house's perspective, it is still taking the full rake from the table as a whole, why shouldn't it count?

[Spence]

I have had this happen at a previous property. It was acually really strange how it all turned out.
All-in for $6. 2 callers. $18 pot
Flop is J44.
One player bets $2. He happened to have flopped quads. The other player calls. Pot $22
Turn is J. Board J44J
All-in has JJ. They have made the bad beat.
Checked turn
River card doesn't change anything
On the river, the quad 4's bets $30 and isn't called. Pot is still $22
They open their cards and start screaming Bad beat. The dealer calls for a supervisor because he wasn't sure how to rake the pot or the jackpot dollar.
All said and done we took the bad beat dollar from the $18 main pot and split the rake $1 from the main and $1 from the side. The biggest trouble was when the player with quad 4's was shipped the side pot it looked like there was only $18 in the pot. Surveillance and the supervisors got it all worked out and we payed it.
An interesting story and may help to say that yes even in the weirdest of situations we still paid the jackpot.

[Nick C]

It's good to hear from some of the regulars on the Forum that have been silent of late. I have no problem with the decision to award the bad beat in most scenario's. My original concern was to try to prevent players from making sure the pot hit the required amount with a minimum wager, just in case.

The best way is to simply spell it out in your rules. In order to be eligible for the "Bad Beat Jackpot" the following conditions must exist, then proceed to list them all. How tough would it be to add; any all-in player must be in for at least the minimum required amount ($20) to be considered elligible. or Any all-in player will be elligible for the "Bad Beat Jackpot" as long as the total sum of all pots (even side pots) meets the requiried amount.

Now you have a rule!