Author Topic: Dead Button Play  (Read 6416 times)

Pepper_W

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Dead Button Play
« on: August 27, 2011, 06:09:18 AM »
I'd like to get some input on a situation I had the other night and see if my ruling was correct.  We were playing a small self-dealt game.  The Button and Cut-off positions were both eliminated in the same hand making it necessary to move a player to the table.  I selected the player at another table and had them move. Now, the person just before the cut-off had to deal the dead button, but the new player sat down in the vacant seat left by the cut-off player.  Since the button is physically one seat to the left of the moved player, I made the ruling that the player was in the hand since they were not sitting in the button seat.  The rub came from the fact that the player to their right was dealing the hand and some of the players felt the moved player should let the deal pass them before being dealt a hand.  I'd like to see what everyone things about the ruling and and suggestions you have in this situation.

Pepper_W

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Re: Dead Button Play
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2011, 06:28:49 AM »
To clarify, after the two players were eliminated it left the Button and Cut-off positions vacant.  Which means the blind players were both eliminated in the same hand. 

Nick C

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Re: Dead Button Play
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 04:58:43 PM »
Pepper,
 If I can give you a little advice. I suggest you let us know how many players are left in the hand? It might also be helpful if you use seat numbers to identify positions. I know that I speak for those that want to give you the right answers to your questions.

Desi

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Re: Dead Button Play
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 06:22:47 PM »
Pepper,
 If I can give you a little advice. I suggest you let us know how many players are left in the hand? It might also be helpful if you use seat numbers to identify positions. I know that I speak for those that want to give you the right answers to your questions.


Ignore my reply then pepper, and wait for the correct answers.

chet

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Re: Dead Button Play
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2011, 06:41:51 PM »
Pepper:  If in the last hand (assuming a 9 handed table), the button was in seat 1, that would make seat 9 the cut-off.  You say that these position were both eliminated, but then you also say that both blinds were eliminated.  I don't see how it is possible for both blinds to be eliminated if the positions eliminated were in fact the button and the cut-off.  The button would moved to seat 2 and seats 1 and 9 would be the vacant seats.

OR

Are you saying that the button was on seat 9 in the last hand and in that hand that players in seats 1 and 2 were both eliminated?  In this case for the next hand the button should be in seat 1 (vacant) with the SB in seat 2 (vacant) and the BB in seat 3.  In which case, I would move the new player into seat 2 as the BB,  leaving the dead button in seat 1 AND a dead small blind for that hand.  The next hand I would leave the button (dead) in seat 1 with the SB in seat 2 and the BB in seat 3.  All this of course assumes there are no other vacant seats at this table for those two hands. 

Chet

Pepper_W

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Re: Dead Button Play
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2011, 03:23:32 PM »
ok, for clarification.  This was as they were beginning to deal.  8 players were at the table.  The button was at seat 9, but seats 8 and 9 were eliminated the hand before I moved the player.  They sat in seat 8 with the dead button physically located at seat 9.  Seat 7 was dealing for the dead button position.  The argument was that the player who sat in seat 8 could not enter the hand until the deal had passed him.  I ruled that since the button was physically to the players left, seat 8 would be dealt in the hand, regardless of who was dealing.

Hope that's a little more clear.

Thanks

Nick C

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Re: Dead Button Play
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2011, 08:18:02 AM »
Pepper,
 There is something that's not right. This is why we can't answer your question. I understand that the player in seat 7 is dealing but, the button is in seat 9 .Clockwise to seat 9 is where your first card is dealt, so why can't the player in seat 8 be dealt in?

Bottom line...your decision was correct. It should make no difference who, or what seat is dealing. The only thing that matters is that the button is correct and that is where the deal originates

chet

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Re: Dead Button Play
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2011, 10:20:17 AM »
Pepper: 

1.  Even though the player in seat 7 is physically dealing the cards, the first card should go to the player in seat 1 as the SB, the second card to the player in seat 2 and so on.  The button placement in seat 9 is a DEAD BUTTON.

Why would you move the player into seat 8?  TDA Rules state that when balancing tables, Youi should take the player who is to be the next BB and that player is to be moved to the worst position on the new table.  You have effectively moved that player into the BEST position (given that the button position was vacant).

I am still confused.

Nick C

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Re: Dead Button Play
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2011, 10:40:20 AM »
Pepper,
 I agree with Chet, if the table were only 9 handed. However, most rooms spread 10 handed games. You will recognize the need for detail each time you submit a question. What started out as a simple task of moving a player, is still unclear.

Stuart Murray

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Re: Dead Button Play
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2011, 10:27:31 AM »
Hi Pepper, it sounds like you made the correct ruling from what I have read here, it is irrelevant who is physically dealing the cards, although given it was a self deal and i presume you are using the 'button deals' rule the player who has moved into seat 8 should of been given the deck to deal the hand, from what I have read it is a 9 seat table with seats 8 and 9 vacant before the hand starts, with the button in seat 9, so therefore the balanced player was moved to the first seat clockwise available from the BB, which is correct under TDA rules.

Regards
Stuart