Betting line - string bet?

[W0lfster]

Is this allowed?

Example: Player's turn to bet, grabs a stack of chips which equal $100 with their left hand and pushes them forward past the betting line without releasing.
The player then says raise and without realesing the chips in his/her left hand the player uses their right hand and grabs another stack of chips which also equal $100 and puts them past the betting line then releases. Is this a valid raise or just a call? I know for certain it would be a string bet if you released then went to bet more chips past the line.


Would you be allowed to say raise in this situation when the chips have gone past the betting line provided you havent released those chips?
If so would you be allowed to take more chips past the betting line with your other hand?

Id be interested to hear your responses to this One.

Thx

[Stuart Murray]

Hi Andy,

That all sounds fine to me, although it does depend on local rules.  Some Casinos will only use forward motion on betting lines during cash games, some will use forward motion on betting lines in all game types.  What you have described would be acceptable in the majority of tournament rules.

Regards
Stu

[W0lfster]

Arrr ok so if this was a cash game, could you do it rather than the forward motion rule?

[Brian Vickers]

In cash or tournament, I would not rule it as a string bet so long as the player A) announces raise before releasing the first bunch of chips into the pot, and B) announces raise before his first hand started making motion back to his stack.  As long as both of those things happened, then I'm fine with allowing the raise.

[Nick C]

I think there are far too many conflicting rules or interpretations of rules for betting. First of all, I'd like to say that if action were head to head, it would make your situation more acceptable (to me). I don't like players to be allowed to push their stack (with or without a betting line) in a forward motion, and then allow them to withdraw, or change their mind and raise at the last second. How do you "release" three stacks of chips that are pushed forward and never lifted off the table top?
I think the rule is designed for players that lift their chips and move forward (as opposed to sliding on the table). Some rooms allow players to advance forward with a stack but do not count the bet until the chips are "cut and released." They are allowed to return the remaining chips in their hand back to their other chips. I don't like those rules. I think that any player that has intentions of making a wager, should know how much he is going to bet, and once he moves his chips forward either by pushing, or with chips in hand, he should NOT be allowed to change his bet. There are some rules that will not allow more than one forward motion, even after you say that you are raising.
Your example is what I define as a string bet. Players need to make their bets and intentions clear for all to understand. Why would a player do that? Why not just push all of the chips forward, or announce how much you are betting? It's simple enough.

[JasperToo]

I would not rule it a string bet at a cash or tourney game.  As long as his motions and declaration was fairly fluid.  You describe a situation that is well within the rules for making a raise.  The player did not release chips into the pot before declaring raise and may therefore either declare a specific amount and make several trips to the pot to get it in, or, as you described, simply grab another stack with his other hand and push it in and release all the chips together.

There is a rule in RROp that indicates that if you declare raise you can go back to your stack several times and the bet is only complete when all forward motion is done.  I don't like that one at all and I don't know of a single card room I have been in that would allow it.  It is either put in all at once without a declared amount or an amount is declared and then the chips put in. 

I can see where Nick is coming from on this one because it really is easy to just declare the amount you want to put in (or even cut the chips behind your cards then push them out)  but what you described is perfectly legal and I see it occasionally at the tables.

[W0lfster]

Exactly Jasper, the chips are not released and that is why I agree with the release rule rather than the forward motion one. I see Nicks point also but what if Nick you had more chips than you intended when using the forward motion rule? The chips all have to go in in one motion and I dont like it. I know that you could instead just verbally state it to resolve the issue but I dont see how my example is a string bet when I havent released with my left hand. I may change my mind when Im betting the one stack in my hand and decide to bet more with my other hand. I dont see it as confusing to bet in more than one motion if you dont release the chips in your left hand. I dont know i think this is quite a grey area that really needs standardised but Im glad Jasper sees my point on this one.

[Rach]

I ALSO agree with Wolfster and Jasper