Author Topic: cash game: all in out of turn  (Read 4948 times)

The Hitman

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cash game: all in out of turn
« on: February 26, 2011, 07:19:19 PM »
Hello,

Your opinion on this situation?

We are at a cash-game table, blinds are 5/5:
UTG hasn't talked and UTG+1 announces "60 and all-in!", a few seconds later UTG raises 35 (he didn't see the action of his neighbour), UTG+1 says "sorry", take back his chips and throws his cards behind the betting line.

At this time, the dealer says "I think you cannot take back your bet" and immediatly calls the floorman.
Everybody talks and it's obvious the floorman doesn't know what decision to take.

Finally he decides to kill the hand, he forces the player to leave his bet in the pot and announces to the other players "if you want to play that hand, it would be 60 to call".

For me it seems unfair, as UTG changes the action by raising, The correct ruling would be that UTG+1 has the option to take back his bet. Am I wrong?

Or is there a specific ruling for that case (which can often occurs IMO)?

Thank you!

chet

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Re: cash game: all in out of turn
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2011, 07:55:43 PM »
TDA rule #29 does not apply to Cash Games. 

Robert's Rules of Poker, Section 3, Sub. 11 says,

"11.   Deliberately acting out of turn will not be tolerated. A player who checks out of turn may not bet or raise on the next turn to act. A player who has called out of turn may not change his wager to a raise on the next turn to act. An action or verbal declaration out of turn is binding unless the action to that player is subsequently changed by a bet or raise. If there is an intervening call, an action may be ruled binding."

I think the floor was wrong, he should have been able to retract his out of turn action, but the UTG+1 hand is dead as that player voluntarily folded.  That is how I see it anyway.

W0lfster

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Re: cash game: all in out of turn
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 05:34:49 AM »
But it wouldnt be dead if the cards were retrieveable and werent in the muck.

Nick C

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Re: cash game: all in out of turn
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 06:03:28 AM »
Andy,
 This is when your good judgement will be necesasry. You must consider the rules that apply, and the INTENT of the players involved. I would allow the OOT bettor to retract his bet as long as substantial action has not taken place. Were there other players involved? If there were, did a player react to the OOT bet? Based on the situation the way I understand it, (with no other players), the OOT bettor may retract his bet and his hand is DEAD because he tossed it in the direction of the muck. Whether there is a betting line or not is irrelevant. His action indicated his intention to fold, and the hand should have been "killed" by the dealer instantly.
 To answer the original question, I have to agree with Chet. I think the floor was wrong. If the floor decided to force the player to keep his bet in the pot, he should have at least had the option to call. Forcing a player to put chips in the pot, when that was not his intent and then killing the hand, is a bad call, IMO.