prematurely dealt turn and river

[RobinK]

 Hi all,

 I would like to get your opinions on ruling in following situation. It occured in cash game, but the ruling should be same in tournament play.

 After flop there is still 5 players in the hand. A,B,C,D,E

 A- bets all-in      300
 B- raises all-in     800
 C- folds
 D- folds   
 E- does not do anything

 At this moment, dealer mistakenly thought there is noone left , so he continued to deal the TURN and as well the RIVER. (because it was in the cash game, there was no showdown asked before the river was dealt).
 After the RIVER card was dealt, player E said " I am still in the hand and I did not make any decision on the flop".

You are called to make the rulling. What is your call?

Regards,
RK

[Nick C]

RobinK,
 Player E should have been screaming for the dealer to stop when he burned and placed the turn card on the board. To allow the dealer to continue with the river card makes Player E's hand DEAD. Period. Obviously none of the players, or the dealer, knew he was in the hand. What was he waiting for? He has to speak-up.

[RobinK]

 
 I would have ruled the same. The players has a Dead hand, because he failed to stop the action sooner.
 However, the floorman called decided to let him make the decision on the flop and then redeal the TURN and the RIVER. This decision made player B very upset, cause he had a nut flash on the original Turn, but at the end lost the hand.

 I have never heard about the case when it would be necessary to redeal both ( TURN + RIVER or FOLP + TURN), But still there is a lot of things I do not know about poker. If you can think of any situation, which would require to redeal more then 1 round, please share your wisdom.

Regards

RK

[Nick C]

« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2011, 01:32:10 pm »     

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RobinK,
 If you explained the hand the way it happened. It was a real bad call. There is no rule anywhere that would call for a redeal in that situation.
Not even worthy of more discussion...........or is it?
 I can see a situation where a dealer might have to re-shuffle, and deal the turn and river if the deck were dropped after the flop, but that would be a rare occurrence. It is not the same as what you explained. I might be able to give you a hypothetical situation; Let's say that (using the example you gave but with Player E calling the 800 bet of Player B). First, we have to realize that there will be a main pot of 900 from that betting round, plus whatever was in the pot prior to the last bet, along with a side pot of 1000 that Player's B and E will be contesting. After the flop the dealer burns two cards by mistake and places the incorrect turn, and then burns and places the incorrect river before it is noticed. That would present an interesting situation and just might warrant a re-deal of the turn and river. Possibly? Any other thoughts?

[Brian Vickers]

Dead after the river hits.

[Spence]

Wow! You guys are tough! I think we need to add one thing here. This was the dealer's error that caused the hand to go awry. I will admit though that I have no other ruling to give. Player E has a dead hand...

[WSOPMcGee]

D.O.A.O.R

Dead On Arrival Of River

[Stuart Murray]

the player's hand is dead as he failed to protect his right to action.

Dealer error or not players have a responsibility to draw attention that errors that are about to be made.

Regards
Stuart

[W0lfster]

So you are basically all saying lets say the same situation had occured preflop and the player did not call attention by the time the the turn was dealt, the player has a dead hand because 2 streets have passed instead of 1?

[Brian Vickers]

So you are basically all saying lets say the same situation had occured preflop and the player did not call attention by the time the the turn was dealt, the player has a dead hand because 2 streets have passed instead of 1?

Correct.

[Stuart Murray]

So you are basically all saying lets say the same situation had occured preflop and the player did not call attention by the time the the turn was dealt, the player has a dead hand because 2 streets have passed instead of 1?

That depends on how much action has occured, RROP Section 3 General Poker Rules:
12.   To retain the right to act, a player must stop the action by calling “time” (or an equivalent word). Failure to stop the action before three or more players have acted behind you may cause you to lose the right to act. You cannot forfeit your right to act if any player in front of you has not acted, only if you fail to act when it legally becomes your turn. Therefore, if you wait for someone whose turn comes before you, and three or more players act behind you, this still does not hinder your right to act.

So for example if you failed to act on the flop and two players then the dealer puts out the turn your hand is dead, because 2 people + the dealer have acted = 3 actions. If for example it is on the turn with four players left player 1 is missed and then the remaining 3 players act, you would loose the right to action, which is determined by the TD asto whether your hand is dead or you are forced to check along also.

Regards
Stuart