Author Topic: Do current TDA rules dictate a "must show" at showdown, or not?  (Read 24022 times)

Spence

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Re: Do current TDA rules dictate a "must show" at showdown, or not?
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2011, 04:44:30 PM »
Chet, I completely understand where you are coming from. As a player myself I can count the number of times I've shown when not obligated to on one hand. I don't ever volunteer information. Why should I? It is the players responsibility to try to put me on a hand our piece together some part of my game. However, as a Poker supervisor I feel it is my obligation to create an atmosphere that removes the potential for collusion or cheating of any kind. So I stick by that the above rule can do exactly that. Only under extreme circumstances would it be enforced. I understand what you mean by calling down someone who you know is bluffing. It's only when you call him down with ABSOLUTELY nothing that this could potentially be enforced.
When I say ABSOLUTELY nothing I think I was pretty specific. Queen high or less. I don't think you're calling down any bet even if you know someone is bluffing with less than King high.
Anyone have the WSOP rules on softplay handy? I think that there may be a rule in those that can shed some light on our argument.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2011, 08:47:02 PM by Spence »

Nick C

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Re: Do current TDA rules dictate a "must show" at showdown, or not?
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2011, 04:52:27 PM »
Gentlemen,
 I can understand what both of you are saying, however in a tournament I think the cards should be tabled. Cash game I agree with Spence, but for a tournament (which is what the question pertained to) I have to side with Chet.

chet

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Re: Do current TDA rules dictate a "must show" at showdown, or not?
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2011, 05:46:03 PM »
Nick: 

My example applied to cash games not tournaments.  I don't support the caller having to show if the bettor folds UNLESS there is some concrete reason to suspect collusion, even in a tournament.  Why force the caller to reveal information to the other players that they have no 'right' to?

Chet

Nick C

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Re: Do current TDA rules dictate a "must show" at showdown, or not?
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2011, 02:51:20 AM »
Chet,
 In a CASH game I don't think that a player has to show his hand if he attempts to bluff and is called.

 In a tournament, I think they should. I thought that I was in agreement with you on this one.

 I'm sorry if I misunderstood your answer but, there is no reference to cash games on either post between you and Spence.

NiclasG

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Re: Do current TDA rules dictate a "must show" at showdown, or not?
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2011, 04:00:38 AM »
first of all my 2cents
If someone has called your bet on river he has paid the price for seeing your cards, thus the called player must show the hand and are not allowed to muck the hand.

If i was trying to cheat and use chipdumping i would do exactly like this.
Call call call and then fold.

i would never make an allin as a chipdumping.
When we go allin we show the hands to (not only) be sure that there is no cheating going on..

this is the reason in tournaments i always promt the players
 "if you are called you HAVE to show the hand"
in any showdown we must se tabled cards to issue a winner. if no one shows the hand the board plays and as the rule states when playing the board player must show 2 cards to be able to win the hand.

So why would i allow the players to muck the hand?
 i will still need to see the winners hands, if i dont force the mucking player to show the hand but force the winner to show his hand, then im giving unfair advantage to muckplayer.


Nick C

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Re: Do current TDA rules dictate a "must show" at showdown, or not?
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2011, 04:56:12 AM »
NiclasG,
 I agree with you in tournament play. I should have mentioned on my earlier post that the right to see a mucked hand should not be taken away from a player that requests to see it. Unless it is against house rules. Some rules will only allow players, that were in for all bets, to see the winning hand and the mucked hand, and other house rules allow any player at the table to see the called hand.

Spence

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Re: Do current TDA rules dictate a "must show" at showdown, or not?
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2011, 03:44:25 PM »
Edited:
first of all my 2cents
If someone has called your bet on river he has paid the price for seeing your cards, thus the called player must show the hand and are not allowed to muck the hand.
i would never make an allin as a chipdumping.
When we go allin we show the hands to (not only) be sure that there is no cheating going on..
I never stated that the person who has to show would be all-in. That would defeat the purpose because, that person would have to show under TDA rule #9
I simply said that a bet on the river that was called would warrant the dealer or the floorperson opening the callers hand