Author Topic: all in call for wrongly announced amount  (Read 8019 times)

mooredog

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all in call for wrongly announced amount
« on: February 25, 2011, 08:03:31 AM »
Player A bets 2600 on flop (blinds are 400 & 800 w 100 ante, roughly 2800 in pot which doesn't necessarily matter here) and player B goes all in and says it's 7400. The dealer looks at the bet and says "7400 is correct". Player A tanks for awhile counting his chips, figures the pot odds, mentions how close it is, then finally says call. Both players turn there cards face up and before the dealer can put out the turn and river someone says "The all in is 9400, not 7400" and he's right. Player A says "I would not have called 9400". Now what?
The TD came over and ruled since the caller had the wrong info and the cards were turned up already that the call would be 7400. He returned 2000 to the all in player, ruled no more action, and told the dealer to continue. Everyone invoved felt it was fair. Is this the correct ruling? In the interest of fairness it seemed to be a pretty fair ruling and both players were fine with it.
By the way a straight appeared on board and they chopped so the ruling turned out to not affect either player but if player B had lost he still would have been alive in the tournament.

JasperToo

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Re: all in call for wrongly announced amount
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2011, 08:08:41 AM »
For some reason I don't have the rule # in my head and just throwing out a quick reply for you but the rules regarding verbal action state that Verbal action takes precedent.  So if the B did not say "all-in"  but only said "7400" then the bet is 7400 and the TD in this situation was exactly correct.

W0lfster

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Re: all in call for wrongly announced amount
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2011, 08:18:55 AM »
I agree with Jasper however from your question it seems player B had said and declared him/herself all in for 9400, B cannot get his/her chips retracted and same goes for A the fact B said all in does not matter if he/she thought it was 7400. IMO the rule is that players must be responsible at all times for coutning out their chips and to retract a bet because of an addition confusion is their fault really for not coutning carefully. I know that sounds harsh but I would think the first declaration takes precedence. I could be wrong but, any thoughts?

JasperToo

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Re: all in call for wrongly announced amount
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2011, 08:35:34 AM »
After rereading the initial post it does seems as though the the player actually pushed the chips all-in so now we have a counting error that is actually players A's responsibility to have the dealer count it down properly.  And if the dealer is not cutting the chips out and counting them but still agreeing that the count is 7400, then I don't see it as a problem to let Player A off for the balance.  Is decision was based on false information confirmed by the dealer, therefore not his fault. 

Nick C

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Re: all in call for wrongly announced amount
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2011, 03:35:06 PM »
I don't think it could have been done better. Good call after another mistake by a dealer.

WSOPMcGee

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Re: all in call for wrongly announced amount
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2011, 08:54:40 PM »
While I think what happened is fair, we don't do this at the WSOP (unless there is a gross misunderstanding) and I agree with the principle of why not.

Despite all the people involved in this pot that can't count, there is one constant and that is that Player B is all-in. Player A knows that Player B is all-in. This means that if Player A says call, they are "accepting the action". In this situation a variance of 2,000 in chips is not a "gross misunderstanding". Player A knows he is at least facing 7,400 and if they were unsure they should have asked for an exact count.

A gross misunderstanding would be if Player B had 74,000 in chips and Player A thought they were facing 7,400.

As JasperToo pointed out because verbal takes precedence, even a gross misunderstanding of 74,000 in chips would be challenged as Player A stated verbally "CALL" as verbal bets are binding. Period.

I once had a ruling where the blinds were 300-600 and the standard bet was 1,800. After betting 1,800 many times in a row, Player A accidentally said 18,000 and put out 1,800 in chips. Player B immediately said call and started to put in his whole stack. Player A says, "I thought he said call?" and I had to tell him that he said "18,000" and that Player B was calling 18,000 (though Player B was actually all-in for 17,000).

It's just another example of us floormen trying to decipher what is a lot of the gray areas in poker. What's best for the game. When to follow the letter of the law. But that's what we get paid for. Each example is a case by case, just like any Judge. Some people get let off the hook, some people get 10-20, some people get tournament life!
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