Author Topic: penalty controversy  (Read 17523 times)

W0lfster

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penalty controversy
« on: February 22, 2011, 04:19:48 AM »
I was down the pub last week and found that a player who repeatedly loud mouthed everyone while they were still in a hand. This is very bad etiquette and because of this he was given a warning then a 10 minute penalty. Although this is only pub poker I had to point out to the others that he has not been dealt in despite the fact hes been given a penalty. I immediately said he must be dealt in even though he is penalised, am I correct in my decision and why?

Do you have the same warning/penalties in cash games also?

Thank you
Andy  :)

Desi

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 05:20:05 AM »
They still get dealt in during a penalty and pay their blinds accordingly. Someone else will be able to explain the reasoning behind this.
In a cash game we dont really use a missed hand penalty, I prefer to issue a warning to the offender then the next step would be for them to leave the game. I dont really see the point in a missed hand or time penalty in a cash game, its just like taking a break from the game. But the warning that they will be asked to leave the game is usualy enough.

W0lfster

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2011, 06:03:23 AM »
Arrr ok thank you, but why do you not see the point in a time penalty in a cash game?

Nick C

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2011, 07:08:50 AM »
Desi is right on. The player is dealt in and would also give up any ante in addition to his blinds. This will assure "proper card" to tournament players. In cash games, if a player continues with their antics after being warned; I have ordered the dealer to deal around the obnoxious player. If they don't get the message, they're gone. They will be "86 ed" by security, if necessary.

Stuart Murray

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2011, 10:10:16 AM »
yep, ditto Desi's response,  However under TDA rules we issue a round penalty rather as a fixed time penalty, as this is quantified and measured as a fixed amount penalty, rather as a time penalty as this could differ by amount depending on how many hands are played.

In tournament play we still deal the player in as they still have chips, and are still participating in the tournament, so must still have cards issued each hand in order to keep the hand current, for example as one reasoning in a full table of 10 say you have 2 players on a 1 orbit penalty, if you didn't deal them in that would alter the play at the table as it would then be 8 handed and the range combinations of starting hands would change to 8 handed for example improving hands like KQ etc against the table next door that is still 10 handed to starting hands.

Ditto about the cash game penalty, they do little for the game, and as it's only the hand that's in play at the time, a warning then a "security to cardroom" is the usual method, in casinos there are plenty wishing to play at the ring tables therefore players who wish to misbehave should be quickly denied.

Regards
Stuart
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 10:14:38 AM by Stuart Murray »

W0lfster

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2011, 07:12:21 PM »
Very good point Stuart on the variance in hand combinations if they werent still dealt in, I shall remember that. Thank you all for your responses  :)

W0lfster

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2011, 08:18:52 AM »
Another thing to mention is would you all tell the player to leave if he persists immediately or tell him to leave after the hand has finished?

JasperToo

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2011, 09:03:09 AM »
I say, hand plays then show him the door, pick up his chips and move on....

Stuart Murray

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2011, 10:54:44 AM »
In a tournament, wait till the hands finished before any penalty is issued, at a ring table, if your throwing someone out you do it then and there (or at least security does it then and there!)

Regards
Stuart

W0lfster

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2011, 11:55:48 AM »
Arrr ok thanks, this may sound a stupid question but in a tournament when someone has a penalty, does the button skip them or goes to their seat when it is their turn as if they hadnt left and was still playing?

chet

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2011, 01:04:13 PM »
The player who is away from the table during the penalty is treated as though it would be any other seat where the player has, for example, left the table to go to the restroom.  That button DOES NOT skip that player, nor is that player excused from paying any and all blinds and/or antes.  Cards are dealt to the empty seat and as soon as the deal is complete, the dealer should scoop the players hole cards and immediately put them in the muck.  This preserves the integrity of the hole cards, burn cards and board cards for the remaining players just as though the penalty had not occurred.  

Hope this helps!!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2011, 01:05:47 PM by chet »

W0lfster

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2011, 05:25:01 AM »
Does the dealer scoop the absent player's hole cards even before the UTG has had a chance to act, or when it becomes the absent player's turn?

Nick C

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2011, 06:46:47 AM »
Immediately.

JasperToo

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2011, 08:05:14 AM »
the rule is that any player that is not AT his seat when the last card comes off the deck for the dealer the hand of the absent player is mucked immediatley

W0lfster

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Re: penalty controversy
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2011, 08:09:34 AM »
ok but why is it immediately and not mucked until it is their turn?