Author Topic: Straddling confusion  (Read 14261 times)

W0lfster

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Straddling confusion
« on: January 10, 2011, 04:47:59 PM »
Just wondering, in a cash game where there is straddling, what is the ruling on a live straddle? Ive heard you can keep straddling up to the big blind but the original straddler (Under The Gun) cannot straddle again is this true?

Also if the Under The Gun straddles, does a straddle have to be in order or can it skip a player in order for there to be a restraddle? And does each straddle have to be double each time?

lastly, why is it when its heads up, nobody is allowed to straddle when 3 players the dealer can straddle he doesnt sound to me like hes UTG.
Thanks.  ;)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 04:53:02 PM by W0lfster »

DCJ001

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 07:19:04 PM »
This message board is for issues concerning the Tournament Directors Association.

In my experience, straddling occurs in cash games, not tournaments.

chet

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 08:08:05 PM »
As DCJ001 stated, a "Straddle" is not part of Tournament Poker.  Again I suggest you post your question to a cash game forum such as 2+2.  I also suggest you check Robert's Rules of Poker, Ver. 11. 

Nick C

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 09:53:14 PM »
Straddle's are for cash games and I think that you'd better check the house rules wherever you play. There used to be a standard set of rules that are still followed by 99% of casinos that allow a straddle (in a cash game only). Most follow basic rules like only one straddle per deal and only the player clockwise to the BB may straddle (double the BB) and no skipping any player.
 I've heard of a relativly new twist to the standard rules for a straddle, "Mississippi Straddle" allows a straddle in any position, even as far away as the button!....It is not worth getting in to, and most members of the TDA will not respond to these questions because they will never be a part of tournament poker.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 02:12:34 PM by Nick C »

W0lfster

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2011, 04:25:05 AM »
Fair enough, I do apologise this is my first time posting messages :S. Well thanks for trying Nick.

RobinK

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2011, 06:30:49 PM »
Dear Wolf,

As there was said before, this is mainly "tournament play" discussion, however I will try to help you out here.

 1)The straddle must be always double
 2) First active player after BB can make straddle and the next active player can restraddle, but it can not skip over someone.
 3) Depending on the room and its "house rules" the limit of straddles is not always the same, however the button is normally not allowed to straddle.
     It would be too big advantage for a player on the button to act as a last on all betting rounds, so normally he/she is not allowed to straddle.

 If there are only 3 players on the table then noone can straddle.

 Hope this helps a bit.

 Best Regards
  RK

chet

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2011, 07:29:54 PM »
W0lfster:

What everyone said in this thread is correct, even though they have given you different answers.  The reason was explained by NickC when he said you need to check the "House Rules".  I suggest you get your hands on a copy of Robert's Rules of Poker.  If you Google that, you can find Version 11 which is the most recent (to my knowledge).  In RRoP, the straddle bet is limited to the first player to the left of the Big Blind (usually described as Under the Gun or UTG).  That said, there are variations one of which I have heard about is something called the Mississippi Straddle.  I'll not try to explain it, as I am not sure I can do so accurately, but suffice it to say the Mississippi Straddle is vastly different from the one player straddle bet covered in RRoP. 

Now that I hope I have you convinced to check the House Rules for the Straddle bet, I hope you have realized that there are many different ways to do all kinds of things at individual poker rooms.  The ONLY way to ascertain what the rules are in an individual property is to ask the floor person or supervisor for a copy of the House Rules.  You may not be able to keep them, but you definitely need to read them and be aware of the rules where you are playing!!

Hope this helps!!

W0lfster

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2011, 06:08:48 PM »
Thx, Robin, its a lot clearer now! Just wondering, if blinds are 1/2 and the UTG straddles for 4, what is the minimum raise? is it 4 more to 8? or 2 more to 6?

Also if theres a restraddle to 8 would it be 4 more as minimum raise or 2?

Thx.
:)

Nick C

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2011, 06:34:39 PM »
W0lster,

 This is under non tournament questions:
Reply #3 on: April 21, 2010, 05:17:49 am      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What is a "straddle"  A straddle is a double the big blind bet in a flop game.

               Requirements: a.) Straddler must be the first player clockwise to the big blind
                                   b.) Straddle must double the size of the big blind
                                   c.) Straddle before cards are dealt (blind)
      Why straddle? Players that straddle are usually looking to loosen-up the game. It is considered to be reckless and does create action.

On the first betting round (except at limit when the cap on raises has already been met), the straddler gets the final raise option, not the big blind.
                                               
        A blind raise from any out of straddle position, will not be live and may be considered a violation of any Out-Of-Turn rulings.

        A blind raise is NOT the same as a straddle. Example; Under the gun, looks at his hole cards then raises, or any player that raises (even in the dark) out of straddle position. This is NOT LIVE and NOT A STRADDLE.
                                                             
                      The Dealer is required to announce a "straddle bet" before action begins, or as soon as it occurs.
                                                             
                                             A STRADDLE IS NEVER USED IN TOURNAMENTS.

                                                                  NO-LIMIT STRADDLE

                                 Effects of: a.) Treated as a live blind
                                                b.) Alters the bring-in for that hand
                                                c.) Shifts the final raise option on the first round of betting away from the big blind.
                                                d.) Minimum raise option to next player must double the size of the straddle
                                     In No-Limit, when a player straddles, it may be compared to a "full kill." The required minimum wager
                                     to the next player on the first round of betting has doubled.


                                                                 

                               
 
Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 05:26:11 pm by Nick C   Report to moderator    76.180.180.95 
 
 
 
Nick C
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     Re: Straddle Questions
Reply #4 on: April 21, 2010, 05:26:47 am      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                     LIMIT STRADDLE

                                  Effects of: a.) Treated as a live blind
                                                 b.) May be considered as the first raise of the raise limit for that game. *<see below>
                                                 c.) Shifts the final raise option on the first round of betting away from the big blind
                                                 d.) Can not change the limit of the game
                                                 e.) Raise option to the next player can not exceed the limit for that "street" or betting round
                               In Limit, when a player straddles, the next raise must be the size of the bet for that round.
                                    Example: The game is $3 and $6 with blinds of $1/$3. The straddle is to $6. The raise option to the next player
                                                  is a raise to $9 total because it is a $3 "street."
                                                                 
                              *Some jurisdictions will not consider a straddle into the raise limits allowed for a limit game.
                           This will alter the cap for the first round of betting. Example; In the $3 and $6 game above, with a bet
                           and three raise limit, the cap would be $12 on that round. With a straddle, the cap would be $15 because
                           a straddle is not recognized as a raise.

             I ran out of room on the last post, so I am continuing with this post. You will notice that I added some changes. I also added the fact that only one straddle is allowed per deal. If you can get enough players to agree on rules for a particular game. You will find that the game could be played in any number of real crazy ways. They are not universal and they are not for tournaments. If you go by the rules I've listed, you should be able to decide what is best for you. I hope this helps.


 
 
Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 05:19:24 am by Nick C    
 
 
 

DCJ001

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2011, 06:35:48 PM »
Since we're not discussing straddles in this thread, here's a resource for straddle information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_in_poker#Straddle_and_sleeper_bets

Nick C

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2011, 08:41:32 PM »
Thanks DCJ001,
 There is some good information on that link.

W0lfster

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2011, 03:29:35 PM »
BTW, with a straddle, does that mean on the flop turn or river, the minimum bet is the size of the straddle or the size of the big blind?

chet

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2011, 04:20:33 PM »
A straddle is nothing more than a blind raise.  It does NOT change the minimum bet amount for any betting round any more than any other kind of raise would. 

W0lfster

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2011, 05:14:00 PM »
well it does preflop and it sets a new minimum as stated in RROP it is not treated as a raise. But I was just wondering if the minimum bet is the size of the BB or the size of the straddle on the flop turn or river?

chet

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Re: Straddling confusion
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2011, 07:00:41 PM »
OK, let me say it this way:

The Straddle bet is technically NOT a Raise, in that when the action gets back to the Straddler (usually the UTG player) that bet is live and the straddler can raise again.  I suppose, if you want to get real technical, you can say that the straddle bet increases the minimum bet FOR THAT BETTING ROUND, but ONLY for that betting round.  It does not change the minimum bet amounts for any other betting round in that game.  For the most part, the straddle bet is intended to stimulate action. 

You are playing LIMIT hold'em, 3 - 6 with blinds at 1 and 3.  The UTG player, before the deal, straddles for 6.  To call the straddle each player must put 6 into the pot.  If a player wants to raise, the amount of the raise would be 3 for a total of 9.  Lets assume there is no raise preflop (other than the original straddle), although when action gets back to the Straddler, that player can raise.  Players that do not fold have to put a total of 6 into the pot.  Remember this is all preflop.  After the flop, the MINIMUM bet is again 3.  After the Turn and River the MINIMUM bet is 6.

Don't confuse the effect of a straddle with that of a KILL.  In the case of a KILL, the minimums are effectively doubled.  Using the example above (assuming NO Straddle) if the Kill is On, then this becomes a 6 - 12 game with blinds (usually) at 3 and 6.

Now change the game to NO LIMIT hold'em with blinds at 1 and 3.  Again the UTG player, before the deal, straddles for 6.  To call, each player must put 6 into the pot.  If a player wants to raise, the minimum amount of the raise would be 6 for a total of 12.  Lets assume every player calls the straddle bet of 6 through the BB.  Now the Straddler (the UTG player now has the option of raising) and again the MINIMUM raise would be 6.  Again this is all preflop.  After the Flop, the Turn and the River,  the minimum bet is 3.

From Wikipedia:

"Live straddle

The player immediately to the left of the big blind ("under the gun", UTG) may place a live straddle blind bet. The straddle must be the size of a normal raise over the big blind. A straddle is a live bet; the player placing the straddle effectively becomes the "bigger blind". Action begins with the player to the left of the straddle. If action returns to the straddle without a raise, the straddle has the option to raise. (This is part of what makes a straddle different from a sleeper because a sleeper does not have the option to raise if everyone folds or calls around to him.) The player to the left of a live straddle may re-straddle by placing a blind bet raising the original straddle.[3] Depending on house rules, each re-straddle is often required to be double the previous straddle, so as to limit the number of feasible re-straddles.

Straddling is considered poor long-term strategy by most experts, since the benefit of obtaining last action is more than offset by the cost of making a blind raise. Because straddling has a tendency to enrich the average pot size without a corresponding increase in the blinds (and antes if applicable), players who sit at tables that allow straddling can increase their profits considerably simply by choosing not to straddle themselves."


I hope this helps and doesn't confuse things.