Author Topic: uncall a very low amount of chips - slowplay? or softplay?  (Read 6700 times)

Christian

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uncall a very low amount of chips - slowplay? or softplay?
« on: November 29, 2010, 02:24:11 AM »
Hi all,

I had this situation 2 times last month, and till the second time there was no question for me what to do.
Searching an exact rule was unsuccessful for me, maybe slow play must be nearest to this.

Situation:
Late period of tournament.
Blinds: 500-1000
2 players in play on the river. The pot is about 18000.
Player A bets on the river 4000, player B all-in with 4500.
Player A still had chips about 13000 but he folded.

Some players started to discuss that we should penalize this as slow play.

It happened in a small tournament with 30 players, the opponents were from 2 different nations so collusion was almost impossible.

Dealer without calling TD discovered the cards to see he was really playing the board.
My question is:
What would the right decision:
- force to call?
- TD shall check the cards to see he really has nothing?
- discover the cards to let them see for everyone
- do nothing because he has the right to fold?

One more question:
What is the uncall amount that might cause situations like this?
less than 1 BB? less than 10% of the pot?

Thank you for your answers.
Chris
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 03:53:47 AM by MikeB »

MikeB

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Re: uncall a very low amount of chips - slowplay?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2010, 03:45:58 AM »
Hi Christian. I would answer:
1) Soft play (you mentioned slow play but I think you mean soft play), is when you have a dominant hand and don't act with it in certain circumstances. That isn't what's happening in your illustration.

2) In this case, the player doesn't have a strong hand (just the opposite) and is folding to save himself some money (he thinks)... because he has a rag hand and was bluffing when he made his bet.  He's facing a bet and he folds a rag hand, that's not soft play (normally). Now, if he has one chip to call to take a risk that he has a hand, well maybe he should call but IMO that's probably not penalizeable under the soft play rule if he has a truly rag hand... it just depends on each case as the rule is currently written.

3) Here, I think the dealer should accept this player's fold as binding when declared because the player was facing action, the hand is instantly dead due to a fold while facing action and cannot be re-activated under any circumstances.

4) Now this still leaves the question of collusion, which as you say isn't likely. But the house has the authority to check the cards to confirm no collusion is involved (or any unsolicited "charity" for that matter).... i.e. the player tossed a rag hand. In this case you confirmed in fact that's what he had, there's no case for any further action against this player, IMO.

This all said, the soft play rule can be applied by a TD when they see what they consider to be softplay.... the rules as currently written allow for TD judgement IMO....  Personally there's only one move that I automatically deem to be soft play, everything else is based on the circumstances. Thanks for the post, numerous people have questioned the soft play rule in various threads.... and perhaps thats a subject for review at the next TDA Summit.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 05:32:14 AM by MikeB »

Christian

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Re: uncall a very low amount of chips - slowplay? or softplay?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 03:08:25 PM »
Dear Mike,

thank you for ur answer and I really wanted to tell about soft play and no slow play...

You helped me a lot because my feelings were the same and I am very happy that I registered here, I find this forum very useful.

As you see this situation was clear because he had a really rag hand and everyone knew they are not friends.
But it's possible that next time we won't be that lucky and a folded second pair can be enough to relight those fires...

I am sure now - thanks to your post - that in this case TD should check the mucked cards to see clear.

Have a good day