Author Topic: Gross Misunderstanding - rule 20 (RROP B&R #9, Sec14 #12)  (Read 21164 times)

JasperToo

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Re: Gross Misunderstanding - rule 20 (RROP B&R #9, Sec14 #12)
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2010, 08:31:44 AM »
Sure you realized you were beat as soon as she gave that little smile, but I doubt there was any ambiguity about whether you were paying attention or didn't understand the betting in that situation.  Which is exactly my point.  I believe that it is usually (sure not 100%, somebody MIGHT get away with something, once) easy to tell when it is a mistake vs. an angle shoot.

As Stuart pointed out, holding someone to a call just because it's VERBAL rather than physically putting chips in (which I think you agree has an exception for gross misunderstanding?) is just not in the spirit of the game.  Especially in a tournament I think.

Matt Savage

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Re: Gross Misunderstanding - rule 20 (RROP B&R #9, Sec14 #12)
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2010, 01:14:10 PM »
Tournament Directors should make their dealers use all in buttons!

JasperToo

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Re: Gross Misunderstanding - rule 20 (RROP B&R #9, Sec14 #12)
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2010, 01:15:57 PM »
Thanks Matt, I think that is definitely one of the changes to our little tourneys that I am going to make.  Headed to the trophy shop this afternoon!

NiclasG

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Re: Gross Misunderstanding - rule 20 (RROP B&R #9, Sec14 #12)
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2010, 12:15:41 AM »
Tournament Directors should make their dealers use all in buttons!

So what happens if the player bets and by accident the All-in Button is included in the chips ?

JasperToo

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Re: Gross Misunderstanding - rule 20 (RROP B&R #9, Sec14 #12)
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2010, 09:54:53 AM »
The all in buttons are held by the dealers and placed by the dealers in front of the player that made the all-in announcement.  I actually went down to the trophy shop and had a bunch of them made (quickest way to get them I think).  They are big 3" black and white disks that are hard to miss.  Whenever a player is all in the dealer tosses the button.  It helps let EVERYONE know that there is an all in and gives little excuse to a player that makes a call. 

All the league players said they loved it and it was particularly fun when 3 players where all in!

JasperToo

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Re: Gross Misunderstanding - rule 20 (RROP B&R #9, Sec14 #12)
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2010, 04:35:06 PM »
I hope I am not beating a dead horse here but I presented this scenario to a couple of other local TD's and I was curious to find a split opinion.  One of the TD's was clearly in the Verbal Is Binding No Matter What camp and the other was very inclined to go with the misunderstanding rule and allow a withdraw of chips and a re-evaluation.  But it took a second run through on the scenario for him to go there as his initial gut reaction was Verbal Call is Binding.

The first TD's stance was that you open things up to angling.  I just don't see it.  Sure there might be a few shots here and there by the same players that are taking shots anywhere they can but I think that is pretty rare.  And we simply nip it by giving them a warning on the first "mistake" so that if it happens again it cost them at least a round?

I am stuck on why a verbal bet is any different than physically placing chips (as both td's had no problem accepting the mistake if all the SB player did was place the balance of the big blind in physically without saying anything).  Even when I point out the example in RROP (14.12) that mixes verbal and physical actions most people I discuss it with are hung on verbal is binding.  Is it just because it is clearly a mistake because physically you only put in chips and it wasn't all of them?

???