POKER TOURNAMENT RULES QUESTIONS & DISCUSSIONS > Poker TDA Rules & Procedures Questions, General

Player goes all in and leaves?

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bj03sm:
What would be the best course of action in this situation. A player is wanting to leave and says I am all in and pushes his chips in the middle before the dealer has completed the deal. He then leaves the room and leaves his chips in the middle. The action is folded around to the big blind who calls the all in. I am a little torn because an all in hand cannot be killed, but he was not present when his second card was dealt to him. He did however declare all in before leaving the room. Would you declare him all in and if someone calls and loses to him award him the pot and just blind him off?

Nick C:
Who said an all-in hand can not be killed? If the owner of the hand is not present to turn over the hand, the hand should be mucked. Another player turning over the hand would break the one player to a hand rule, and the dealer should never turn it over. There is also the rule of a player should remain at the table if he has a live hand. (TDA rule #23)

Stuart Murray:
Couple of rules you can use here:

9.   Face Up All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete.

22.   At Your Seat A player must be at his or her seat by the time all players have been dealt complete initial hands in order to have a live hand. A player must be at his/her seat to call time.

As he announced all-in prior to the last hole card being dealt and not after it makes it simple for me - his hand is dead and his chips do not play in your situation, I'm satisfied he's not coming back so I can lift his chips and remove them from play.

Now, heres where it gets complicated (by the way Nick has a valid point about the one player to a hand but in this situation the hole cards are not finished so anything said/done does not stand until the start of the round, which is when the button has recieved their last card) If he announces all-in when the pre-flop betting round has begun the bet stands, even if he walks away from the table after doing it, if the action changes to him by another player raising i'm still leaving the chips in as he has made his intentions clear and has left so cannot re-consider so his all-in stands and whatever happens during the hand is just that and his hand must go to show-down as per rule 9 above (you are correct when you say "you cannot kill an all-in hand" - unless it is an improper hole card/3 cards/dealer kills accidentally etc. In that situation the hand plays out and if he busts another player tough, then the chips come off at the end of the hand but if the other players wins he gets to keep them.

Best Regards
Stuart

AleaLeedsCardRoom:
I have a question.......
In the situation where he announces after the deal, and gets only one caller his cards are tabled and live.

BUT
What if he got more than one caller, betting action would not be complete and so his cards would not be face up and live as per rule #9, but he is not at the table so his hand should be dead as per rule #22.
Also if we are being really picky, say he was under the gun and did this, betting action is not complete until the big blind has acted on his bet, so if he walks away from the table before this happens is his hand dead as per rule #22??

Lewis

Stuart Murray:
Hi Lewis,

the answer is the same as above no his hand is not-dead and must be tabled after betting is complete between the other two players.

Rule 22 is very specific and you will  notice I answer the original situation with ease as #22 covers it fully, his hand will not be dead if the deal is complete and then walks away - the same can be said about a player who gets up during the hand facing a big bet - his hand would not be dead either, although he would likely receive a penalty if he strayed too far from the table.

Remember 23 also: action pending, The player in the example I laid out has furfilled neither 22 nor 23 criteria and has satisfied those rules and is not in breach of either.

The only time I would not have a problem in killing an all-in players hand is when it is a dead stack that has finally been placed all-in in the BB or SB seat, he has not been at the table for the start of the hand so therefore this meets the rule 22 criteria and technically we can kill the hand without it going to showdown but that does bend the rule 9 criteria.

Regards
Stu

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