Forward motion, spilling out chips and straddle

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Whilst playing at my local pub, I came across a player who put in a bet without saying anything in one forward motion with chips in hand spilling each chip one by one onto the felt and then proceeding to take one of those chips in his hand back to his stack. Nothing was said and to be honest it isnít a casino or the World Series however by the book, would this have been allowed?

Also when it comes to straddling, the general consensus is that it is treated as a third blind. If we go by that knowledge say blinds are $1/2 and the UTG straddles for 4, and the UTG +1 restraddles to 8, would the minimum raise for the next player be to 16? This is for no limit. If nobody raises, does the restraddler get to check? When the flop comes is the minimum bet back to $2 on a straddled hand?

Dave Miller:
I'm not sure if it's the same thing, but in my pub league, we do allow a "dribble" bet. I.E. Stack in hand, chips are dropped one at a time, provided that they are dropped at a reasonably quick rate. If there is any sort of extra delay between chips, the bet stops before that last chip. Similarly, if the hand makes any sort of backwards motion, no more chips.

Straddles are additional blinds. Yeah, in a 1/2 game, if someone makes a min-raise to 4, the next min-reraise is 6. However, a straddle of 4 makes the min-raise 8 and a min-reraise to 12.

Similarly, a double straddle to 8 makes a min-raise 16 and a min-reraise 24.

And, yeah, post flop the minimum is back to the regular big blind amount.

Of course min-raises and min-bets rarely happen, but it's good to know the rules.

Yes, the straddler can check if there were no raises. It's like another blind - he has the option to raise, but not required to do so.

Hello Dave,

Thanks for your reply.

I am of the impression then that a dribble bet is open to interpretation and maybe needs addressing at the next TDA summit because one could argue it could be open to collusion. Like I thought as it stands and from what youíve said itís a bit of a grey area if no verbal declaration was said prior to spilling the chips.

In terms of the reraise amounts, I am talking about no limit and I know there are some rules which are different to limit when it comes to raise amounts. Where I stand that 16 example the min raise would be to 32 as I understand it or I could be wrong?! Any thoughts?

Dave Miller:
I agree that the dribble bet is open to interpretation and probably should be addressed at the next TDA meeting.

I’ve never seen a straddle in a limit game. I would assume that they are limited to the amount of a normal preflop raise, but giving person the right to re-raise.

Straddles are usually* double. Multiple straddles just keep doubling. There’s a video out there of a high stakes 5/10 game where it was straddled five times, all the way up to $320.

No matter how many straddles, the first raise is always the amount of the last straddle, essentially another double. But the min-reraise is always the amount of the raise, not doubled again.

So in that high stakes game, a min-raise is another $320 to take it up to $640. Another min-raise of $320 will take it up to $960. Post flop, the minimum bet would be back to $10.

*Usually: I forget where, but I once played a 1/2 game where a straddle was $5. But that was more to reduce the requirement for change, and not slow down the game.

Also note that many jurisdictions limit the number of straddles. Some don’t allow them at all.

Nick C:
I think the important thing to remember is: Straddles are blind so if multiple players are allowed to straddle, I believe the straddles keep doubling.

When we speak of raises, that's where it changes.


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